The Finale - I'd say let's discuss
May 23, 07 - 11:16 PM
Re: season finale....here we go! (OK so I posted on the other thread but it started prior to all watchers getting a shot at it)
Wowsy Mackrel! It was a flash FORWARD! How could it not be, Kate showed up! Well played, the clue is Jack realized in the FF that he *ucked up. No offense to him, because who could trust Ben. Big question is who died? Also how is Jack's Dad still alive? Apparently he is as Jack asked that other Doctor to "call his Father" "Golden Tickets" what is this Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory??? Sure looks like however it plays out Jack regrets it. Holy $h!t Locke kills Naomi and walks from killing Jack? We've got to wait 8 months for the answers? Yikes, give me a prescription for Oxycodone!!!
May 23rd, 2007 - 11:23 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Two words in advance of a Barnum Post RE: C&L and the writing of Lost:....
"Genius unfettered"!
May 24th, 2007 - 2:12 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Holy Smokes! What a ride! Go Hurley! Wow, they really killed off some Others! They had to have gone to some sort of future, but is it what COULD happen or what WILL happen? The fact that Jack's dad is alive in the FF leads me to believe this is just one alternate future. So, who do you think was in the coffin? I'm going with Sawyer, just because of the type of neighborhood it was in. And whoa! There's Walt. Blow me away.
As much as I've been wanting Charlie to die, I was sad when he did. These past couple episodes, he's actually been a man I liked. What a bummer.
Finally, I'm thinking that the Others and the Losties are going to end up banding together against whatever is coming now. Especially with so many of the Others dead.
I don't think I can wait until next February. I'm going to have to watch the first three seasons again over the next 8 months to keep my jitters under control!
May 24th, 2007 - 5:15 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Well, you have to give C&L credit...(um, Barnum?)...they have been saying since season one that time is not what it appears to be on the island.
Seems like a lot & little packed into a show. Lots of TV action but little of the extensionalism and philosophical bent of many of the recent eps.
May 24th, 2007 - 5:28 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss When Jack made his comments that might suggest his father was alive:
1) He was drunk/drugged up, and probably not thinking too clearly.
2) The doctor listening to him knew he was "under the influence," and rather than correct any mistake (if there was one) would be likely to humoUr him.
3) The pharmacist looking at the presciption would have been trying to be discreet and not make a scene in front of other custoUmers. (privacy issues and all...)
So whether his father was or was not alive, the exact same things we saw could have happened.
May 24th, 2007 - 5:58 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss What if they arrived back in the U.S. at a point in time BEFORE they left? Kate said "I need to get back. He'll wonder where I am." Maybe she never left her husband. Maybe Jack's dad never went to Australia and is therefore still alive. Jack said "I'm tired of lying." Maybe he's sick of pretending it all never happened. Also, Jack was using his real name, yet no one thought it odd that he was supposed to have died in a plane crash a while back. Jack had a bunch of maps out before calling Kate. Maybe he'll figure out how to get back to the island and convince Kate to go too, and they really will be Adam and Eve. B/c this, as a real ending to the show, would suck! As much as Jack isn't my favorite, Kate loves him, and I want them to end up together! Maybe the island, as I've said before (and others have too) moves the opposite direction in time. So the later it gets there, the earlier it gets here and vice-versa.
On the other hand, why would Oceanic give them Golden Tickets if the flight/crash never happened? Crazy!!
May 24th, 2007 - 6:01 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Dutch writes, "We've got to wait 8 months for the answers?"
Oh, Dutch. You're going to have to wait longer than that. A lot longer.
Some random thoughts:
In light of last night's episode vis-a-vis Locke does anyone still think that Locke hid the submarine rather than actually blowing it up?
I guess it's now as certain as it's ever going to be that we'll never learn any more than we now know about Locke's father's presence on the island. How he got there. Why he was brought there. It's a shame because it seemed to be a big thing at the time and it certainly captured the fans' imagination. But in accordance with Cuse and Lindelof's modus operandi they just distracted the audience with an even bigger what-the-f*ck moment so now papa Locke is as forgotten as yesterday's news.
As far as last night's episode is concerned: it was well done and I did enjoy it and in a different context it really would have blown me away, but here's the thing: it only works if they follow up on it; if they really deal with the implications of what we were shown in the final moments. It does seem inconceivable that they could have such a startling plot development and then proceed to ignore it but bear in mind this is precisely what they've done countless times before (as recently as in "The Man From Tallahassee"). C & L's pattern seems to me to be to think up the most startling, unexpected plot developments and then only after the fact figure out what they mean and what to do with them. I doubt this latest example is any different.
May 24th, 2007 - 6:04 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss i thought jack was looking so tom hanks/castaway-ish with that unkempt beard-wow!
and why was he downing so much oxycontin (sp?)? trying to come off the alcohol? in mental anguish since having left the island?
i think it was either sawyer or locke in that casket. more likely sawyer cuz jack was surprised kate didn't go to the viewing.
jack's ex wife was SO preggo.
so, danielle really is alex's mom, but is ben the dad? was he doing a good thing my "delivering" alex to her family?
bawled when charlie died. i too wonder why he didn't just get out of the room and shut the door, or swim out the blown porthole.
as we learn that's not penny's boat, i think that's why we still have 3 more seasons...ben's convinced that whomever is on that boat will kill them all, so i foresee another battle against the freighter boat people and the LOSTies/others (perhaps combining forces?) and then at least jack and kate get back to civilization?
i am sure i'll have many more thoughts, but i am so tired from staying up to watch and then waking up so early. GO HURLEY!
May 24th, 2007 - 6:10 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss LB,
Did you notice the Exodus parallels? Namoi called Jack "Moses," then we see a group of extras carrying luggage on two poles. I asked, "What are they carrying?" and my husband and our friend we were watching with both said, "The ark of the covenant!" and laughed.
May 24th, 2007 - 6:11 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Wow, what a finale! I wish I had time today to read in, but we have visitors today and so I will be away most of the day.
I agree with whoever said that C&L have said time on the island is not what it seems. I think the shift to the present is interesting, and it might just be the way they will be telling the story from this point forward. Kind of like the first part of the story was the crash and the aftermath. Flashbacks were used to explain who we were watching. Now we have a different perspective of the show. Will the rest of lost be the present with flashbacks of the rescue? Wow, it is going to be a long 8 months.
I think Jack was just hopped up on drugs and has MAJOR daddy issues and that is why he was talking like his Dad still exists.
Coffin- I would guess it was Locke.
The discussion between Jack and Kate at the airport would lead me to believe that they were rescued and subsequently coerced to lie about the island and what happened after the crash. Kate seems to be free, and that would suggest that whoever made them lie about their past either has great influence with the government or IS the government.
Sad to see Charlie go after all. What a heartbreaking scene.
Loved Juliet's funny comment to Sawyer about aliens- HA!
Finally, thank god Sayid and Jin are okay. I was ready to jump ship. Hurley was the MAN!!!!
May 24th, 2007 - 6:12 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss oh, and the fact that jack just steps back into his role at the hospital and we see no conversations of "where have you been the past 90some days?" (even though we know it'll be longer than that, but you get my point), i am guessing time moves differently on the island-again. but then again, seeing how preggo sarah was, maybe not????? maybe that's just one of those conversations we think people should be having (like those LOSTie fireside chats on the island) and either they aren't or we just don't see it.
poor ben...his face just finally healed from sayid beating the crud out of it and now jack pummels him. his eyes (ben's) seemed extra buggy last night...
May 24th, 2007 - 6:50 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss The reason Charlie shut himself into the comms room instead of stepping out and then shutting the door is that Desmond was about to push his way in to talk to Penny and with Mikhail holding a grenade by the porthole there wasn't time to calmly explain why they both had to step outside and seal the door. Charlie had two choices:
1) Step outside the door as Desmond forced his way in, seal Desmond in the room and let him die.
2) Seal Desmond out of the room and allow himself to be killed in Desmond's place.
Charlie chose the nobler path.
The porthole looked too small for Charlie to squeeze out of. However, there seemed to be a little technical oversight in the way Charlie Died. Since the hatch was open to the sea (the way Charlie and Des swam in) the air pressure in the hatch is equal to the water pressure at the depth of the station. That means that the water wouldn't come rushing into the room, but it would have to alternate between bursts of water rushing in and bubbles of air rushing out of the same hole. It also means that once the water filled up to the top of the porthole, the air above the porthole would remain. Charlie would have had air to breathe for a while and might be able to communicate further with Des. It would have been possible for Desmond to swim out the way he came in, and then Charlie could have opened the door. Again, with the air pressure in the station being equal to the water pressure there would be no pressure holding the door closed, and no more water would have come in through the porthole. Instead, air would have gone _OUT_ of the porthole and the water would have come _IN_ through the moon pool. Charlie would have had seconds, though probably not minutes, to get to the moon pool and swin back up to the surface.
But then they would have needed another way to nobly kill off Charlie...
May 24th, 2007 - 7:01 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Too, I think Charlie locked himself in to drown fearing that if he didn't die as in Des' vision, then the rescue wouldn't happen.
BTW, is it possible the answer to how Locke's father came to be on the island is Smokey? On the "answers" show, C&L did state that Smokey can manifest memories. We've seen in the past that these manifestations were "real". Maybe that's what Locke's dad was.
May 24th, 2007 - 7:24 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Personally, I don't see any problems with Locke's dad being on the island, and I think they've answered the open items well enough. Ben's Gang has already shown they have no scruples about bringing and confining people to the island against their will, if it suits their purposes. They lied to Juliet about the circumstances of her "employment" with Mittelos, and then wouldn't let her leave. That's an unusual kidnapping, but a kidnapping nonetheless. The details that Cooper gave suggest that he was also kidnapped. It's pretty clear that Ben & Co had lots of uses for him, depending on how they intended to manipulate Locke. Remember at the time, Ben was still in a wheelchair, and didn't see Locke so much as a threat to his leadership but as a tool he could use to learn more about the island and regain the full use of his body.
I think that this is all very self-consistent and any inconsistencies seen are inconsistencies with one's personal theories that no longer match what we've been shown.
May 24th, 2007 - 7:44 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Yeah, that doesn't make any sense. They kidnapped Cooper just in case one day Locke would read the directions to Otherville on Mr. Eko's stick and come knocking at their door? They didn't know Locke was coming and yet had his father there waiting for him. And for that matter why would they want to manipulate dumb ol' Locke, of all people? And assuming they had some reason and wanted to manipulate him why wasn't he kidnapped and brought to the others along with Sawyer, Kate and Jackass?
The bottom line is this: if they're going to pull such an outrageous stunt (taking someone from the flashbacks and putting them on the island) they had better be prepared to back it up with something better than some extremely vague Locke-communes-with-island-so-we-must-manipulate-him cr@pola. There have to be some standards, some rules, some things they can do and other things they can't do or it's all utterly meaningless. If anything can happen then it doesn't matter what happens. Otherwise it's just bad writing (and this part is for Charlotte, bad plotting).
May 24th, 2007 - 8:04 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Well now, Barnum, if you want to dislike the way it's all panned out, you're allowed to have your own feelings. The idea that Locke shouldn't have been particularly important to them (and your amusing certainty on that) is certainly a matter of feelings. But since we've seen that Ben had a way to observe Locke during his hatchwife days, and we've seen that Ben eventually learned that Locke's paralysis was healed on the same day he came to the island, it looks very plausible to me that Ben put a big red star next to Locke's name very shortly after he found out who Locke was. Locke's gullibility and total surrender to his mysticism would show early on that he's easily manipulated, and a check of his background in the Real World would reveal his codependence on a good-for-nothing father who would be missed by no one if he "vanished." To me, that makes it perfectly reasonable that they'd keep tabs on Cooper so they could grab him at a moment's notice. They wouldn't need to know exactly how they'd eventually use Cooper in order to know they'd be able to use him easily, and on the off-chance that they were wrong and couldn't use him after all, there seemed to be lots of room in the Dharma body pit for one more corpse...
But putting in details like this would slow down the story. Most people wouldn't care, and the few who did should be able to figure it out fairly easily, unless they were already bound by obsolete theories that seemed to contradict what we've actually been shown.
May 24th, 2007 - 8:27 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Well.. lots of questions here.
Who was waiting for Kate? Was it her ex husband? was it Sawyer? Was her her child from Sawyer that was waiting for her?
ANYONE GOING TO COMMENT on JACK smootching JULIET then being a PLAYA and telling Kate he loved her?!?!?!?!
If Christian is alive, is Ana Lucia, Eko, Charlie?
I find it quite humorous they let Bernard stay behind to shoot. WTF? There were plenty of young bloaks in the pack up the mountian.. why the dentist?
I didn't like how Sawyer killed Tom. I liked Tom a lot. He was a nice / bad guy if there is such a thing. I was taken back as Hurley and Juliet were. Killing the real Sawyer made him more rotten if there is such a thing.
I think the guy in the casket is Ben. He has no one. If he was drug off the island, he surely would have no one.
YOU GO SAYID with the two-legged head-snapping move with your hands tied behind your back and your mouth bound! GO HEAD with your bad self!!!
May 24th, 2007 - 8:39 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Barnum says we'll have to wait longer than 8 months for answers..Come on at least we'll get another LOST recap with "The Answers" provided to us! Actually I suspect it will be 3 years before we really know the story. As for Cooper being brought to the Island, Wesb as usual explained this very intelligently, but also don't forget that in S2 when Big Ben got caught, he was (at least according to him) "coming for Locke" They well could have read up on Cooper, caught him and brought him to the Island by then, they weren't expecting Locke to wander into their camp, they were going to bring him.
As for Last night's Finale, besides the Holy $h!t factor of the Flash Forward, I found it interesting that Ben went by himself to head off Jack's "Exodus Brigade". I know that most of his Goons were incommunicado off trying to kidnap Lostie women and pillage Lostville, but Richard and some of the Other Others couldn't come? No weapons? Obviously Ben had some reason for that. He always seems to have a method to his madness.
Loved the ambush scene and loved the Hurley rescuing the guys scene with the VW van even better! That was a surprise. I still stand by my statements that Hurleys FB eps. are either really cool or really lame, and the VW "Dharma" Bus one was in the lame category, but the re-emergence last night of the van was classic. Locke's surprise visit (not to mention Big Walt's) was great too!
May 24th, 2007 - 8:41 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Leaving Bernard behind as one of the shooters is a little odd, but the writers needed him there as a story device. In order to plausibly put Ben in a situation where he'd leave himself at Our Heroes' mercies, Ben would have to be desperate. For that, he'd have to know just how badly his own plan was doing and where Moses/Jack was leading the Chosen People...
In a fast-moving story like this one, there would have to be a quick way for Ben to get answers. The solution is to have the Marksmen temporarily captured and have someone in the group with no backbone give them the information they need almost immediately. Now, who to use... Charlie's already under water, and besides, he's shown some evidence of growing a spine. (He's one-upped Locke, who already had a spine, but merely got it healed. Growing one from scratch would tax even the island's abilities...) The next character who could act plausibly spineless would be Bernard.
So Bernard got written in...
May 24th, 2007 - 8:45 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss EB- Good point about Sawyer Executing Tom, made me feel bad about him as well. Looks like Sawyer is taking another about face in his personal progression and redemption.
Also I think it was CCL that nailed the Charile story, I think he felt it necessary he die, lest the vision not play out. Also from blurbs I heard about Dominic Monaghan not wanting to be shoe horned into the role of "Charlie" for the remainder of his career, he was being kindly escorted off the show. Certainly he leaves with a lot more positive impression from fans than he did much of his first 2.9 seasons up until that point. Way to go Chuckles!
May 24th, 2007 - 8:47 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Wes, sorry, but no, even if everything you're theorizing were true it still makes no sense. If the goal of bringing Cooper to the island was to manipulate Locke then...why didn't they go through with said manipulation. As I recall the chain of events they went like this: Locke shows up unexpectedly, Ben asks one of his flunkies to bring him "the man from Tallahassee", Locke blows up sub (which he wanted to do anyway), Locke gets bitten by dad, The Others leave Otherville to go camping, one day later they tell Locke to kill Cooper, Locke doesn't, Locke and Cooper are exiled, Locke gets Sawyer to do his dirty work, Locke returns demanding info on Jacob, Ben (who is the only one of the others who has ever seen or spoken to Jacob) brings Locke to Jacob as some sort of test, Locke apparently passes said test in a manner somehow threatening to Ben who then shoots Locke.
Where, exactly, in all this was Cooper's presense necessary from Ben's point of view? What did Cooper deliver to Ben that he wouldn't have gotten anyway?
May 24th, 2007 - 8:48 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Wesb- Don't forget Benny the Dentist was an avid Pheasant Hunter as well. Other than Sawyer or Jack or Kate I can't think of another more eligible shooter, but like you pointed out they needed a gut spiller and Bernard was a lot more likely for that role than Jack, Kate or Sawyer. As it played out, that worked out well for the Losties, as none of the shooters lost their lives!
May 24th, 2007 - 8:51 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Barnum- From Ben's point of view he was able to humiliate Locke with Cooper. He saw him as a threat, and gambled he couldn;t kill his dad. He was correct. He didn't count on, and I don't think to this point knows, that Sawyer would do the dirty work. Richard knows, but it seems that he is working on a seperate agenda than Ben. Certainly though Cooper had value to Ben.
May 24th, 2007 - 9:21 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Hey, Barnum...
I would claim that Ben _did_ manipulate Locke through Cooper. He'd continued to feed Locke's fragile ego in showing him how "special" he is, and actually brought Locke into his own camp, ostensibly as an ally. This is fairly big, from Ben's POV. However, Ben's plans seem to be unravelling, as of late. Because his grip on power has been slipping, because Locke is marching to his own drummer, and because Ben is now likely seeing Locke's presence as a threat to his leadership, his plan has gone through some desperate modifications. Any further use of Cooper to manipulate was tossed out in favor of using Cooper to humiliate and ostracize Locke. That didn't work so well for him either, but plans that all work neatly aren't nearly so interesting.
Fact is, Ben has gotten a huge amount of "mileage" out of Cooper. It wasn't all as he'd expected, and a lot of it was subtle. Again, detailing all of this would just slow down the story. Those who actually care about details should be able to figure them out, if they're not burdened by obsolete theories of their own.
May 24th, 2007 - 9:30 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss I don't believe Cooper was ever important. He was a filler to get us through the season and to WTF us as Barnum puts it. I dont even think a Cooper explanation would matter to me at this point. Who cares about him? He is done, gone..
Charlie's departure was sad but I think it will be like all JJ Abrams shows. Few examples.. ALIAS.. Sydney gets her man in the end, FELICITY (I know) Knowl dies.. she does a magic spell (time travel)and when she wakes up in the morning, She and Ben are together forever, Knowl isn't dead and get married.
I just hope the ending isnt weak. JJ tends to have very predictable endings to shows.
WEbs.. You do bring a valid point.. who would have been the sucker to rat the Losties out? BUT still... BERNARD? Dude needs to be in the geriatric ward.
I was still a little surprised by Jake and Juliet's kiss. What else have they been doing?!?!?!
May 24th, 2007 - 9:41 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Hi, EB-
I agree that Cooper's usefulness is done and there's little more to be done with him, but I think that he was a very important story device who, in one stroke, brought Locke as much closure as he's likely to get with his father issues, brought Sawyer some sort of resolution (not closure though...) with his obsession to kill The Real Sawyer, and Cooper also brought a semi-plausible excuse for Locke to at least temporarily throw his lot in with Ben's Gang. Without Cooper, I think that that behavior would have been much harder to swallow, even for someone as emotionally out-of-control as Locke is. With Cooper there, and with the emotional wrenching that Locke went through because he was there, Locke's bizarreness was quite explainable; even something we might expect.
May 24th, 2007 - 9:59 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Well, I finally got to finish watching, just a few minutes ago.
Underwhelmed.
Jack in a flash forward. Well, as dull as it was, at least it wasn't another Jack-BACK. Still. Yawn.
The Hurley rescue, Jack FINALLY beating the crap out of Ben, Saayid's little move, Sawyer putting Tom down for good, Locke finally throwin' knives again, Bakunin taking a spear gun spear to the chest...
All fist pumping "Yes!!!!" moments.
And yet...underwhelmed.
I have lots to process, and a good screen shot of the mystery article that sheds some light on who is in the coffin...
This one's gonna take a while to write.
May 24th, 2007 - 10:09 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss just a small sidenote as i've only gotten to scan these posts. cooper was not only useful in manipulating (humiliating) locke but sawyer as well. in fact, people were saying sawyer had redemption as he came to terms with this cooper guy and all that, but after last night, i'd say he's taken a turn for the worse, killing tom in cold blood. he seemed pretty mad at the whole world, kinda...
yes, EB, pretty crazy with jack and juliette kissing (who initiated that kiss?) in front of kate and then him telling kate he loves her. i'd be like, "ok, well where's my kiss? or better yet, jacky boy, how about a little afternoon delight?"
May 24th, 2007 - 10:20 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss GB-is this what you found?
https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhzUUZIuPw6QlH-xCWDTK44cok4kjfuR4fxaYRfKko1k2mOfvjtrYCVbLZ1MW4eaWUeISMLIkGXM1RzgAkZr0Bzbht22jRj4CIN_TIM51sJUf_wDp4iyUphDOpdHHTkf8UBF66t/s1600-h/%20newspaperclipping2.jpg
what does it say?!?!!??!!?!?
oh-i had a thought. what if that's jack in the coffin. drank/drugged himself to death?!?!?!? who the jack we see is, i don't know, unless he's the bad twin?
May 24th, 2007 - 10:27 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss The funniest moment last night, to me, was when our Losties had Ben tied to the tree. He wouldn't shut up so Danielle just reached over and popped him!
May 24th, 2007 - 10:32 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss funeral home name anagram...HOFFS/DRAWLAR...FLASH/FORWARD
May 24th, 2007 - 10:38 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Well I can see the word "beam" in that little cut-out article, so I'm guessing someone hung himself. Someone rich, too, it seems (Grand Avenue lofts aren't cheap, I'm guessing).
BTW, where was Jack from? and where was Kate living when she got married? (If you're wondering why I'm asking, see my first post above--I'd love feedback!!!)
May 24th, 2007 - 10:56 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss LIG... I also chuckled when Rousseau gave Ben the old elbow. She didnt miss a beat.
My heart melted when Alex found her mother.
Was it me, or did Hurley not look as huge as he usually does?
May 24th, 2007 - 11:00 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss The situation where Jack kissed Juliet but then told Kate he loved her was weird at first, but considering Jack's confused and conflicted self, it may make some sense. At least as much sense as can ever be made trying to understand someone's romantic motivations.
I think that Jack really wants Kate, but may feel that she can never truly be his. After the long and emotional time he spent carrying the torch over his ex-wife (is he still carrying it?) I think he's deathly afraid of rejection and betrayal. Kate's horizontal adventures with Sawyer just serve to reinforce his fears and worries, and he keeps his distance. I think that when Charlie slammed the chamber door closed in Desmond's face last night, it was the bravest act we've seen in the series. Jack's actually telling Kate he loved her may have been a close second, considering what he had to overcome to reach that point...
With Juliet, he feels a common bond. Both were captives of Ben and have been striving to get off of the island. They've formed an alliance to help and support each other to that end and that's led to a closeness. And since just about everyone else on the island now hates Juliet, she's the safest choice possible for him.
I think Jack's willing to settle for Juliet but longs for Kate. (I think that rather than playing with either one, he's safer playing with the dynamite in the black Rock...)
May 24th, 2007 - 11:02 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Couple things, GB-Underwhelmed? Yikes! They packed as much action into last night's show as I've seen at any time. Also some very significant plot twists with the Flash Forward, does as Doc. Jensen points out, change everything.
U.N Owen makes an interesting theory, that the Losties came back to the "real world" prior to the plane crash, but knew each other from their Island experience. Not sure them returning prior to 9.22.04 or sometime in 2005 makes a big difference but it would be interesting. One thing that leads me to believe Kate didn't return to her husband Kevin was her standard of living in the Flash Forward. Kevin was a Cop and its not a generally going to be wealthy doing. As for where they were living at the time, Jack was in LA, Kate I'm not sure.
May 24th, 2007 - 11:07 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss In looking at the picture of the newspaper clipping that LB sent me, it looks like it reads "the body of ???? Lantham of New York" Was anyone named Lantham?
May 24th, 2007 - 11:15 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss I don't remember a Lantham. Could it be an alias? The only person I'd imagine taking an alias besides Kate would be Sawyer...
May 24th, 2007 - 12:26 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss From what I can tell, it looks like the guy in the casket with John Locke. You can see a capital "J" then "o" and then the clipping is folded.
It will be interesting if they have an option of staying on the island. I wonder if Danielle and Alex will stay together? Will Alpert disappear into the forest never to be found again? How did Penny happen to be the person on the transmission? It could have been anyone.. how was it her?
May 24th, 2007 - 12:38 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss I thought the finale was great! It wasn't what and how I expected it, but the more I think about it - the more I let stuff sink in - I really really liked it.
A lot of great discussion on here today! Again, I don't get Barnum but dig his right to have his opinions, altho I'll never understand watching a show just to pull out all the stuff you hate, dislikek, whatever. And Barnum, seems to me (the little I know of you) that you purposely look for the stuff to nit-pick and dis and hate on. Can't ya just sit back and, for even one post, just talk about what you DID like?!
I made a few notes and I definitely agree mostly with wesb and Dutch on the show. They have great insight and I think view the show a lot like I do (thanks, guys). I haven't had a chance to let all my ideas sink in yet, so it helps seeing what/how others saw it. And I can't wait to watch it again!!
Two things I dislike about some viewer/posters:
1) those who think they need all the answers, even to the little things that really probably DON'T matter anymore. So what if they led us to think it was going to be some GREAT WTF moment, and then it's Kate with her toy airplane! Who cares?!?! I'm guessing you're just p.o.'d cuz they got ya! Lighten up!
2) I have come to completely and totally despise the word 'filler' - for a few reasons a) HOW DO YOU KNOW what's filler until Sprin 2010 when we watch the last ep and go: 'oh crap, that tagged bird meant nothing, I feel so used' and b) HURLEY'S BUS proves that a lot of what you call filler does and WILL come into play again!! I wish this site didn't delete posts over 250 because I would guess that probably a good 95% on here thought Hurley's bus ep was a "filler" ep but it sure the heck came in handy last night!!! To me, using the word 'filler' (cuz ya just DON'T know yet) is as bad - no, worse - than the gawd forsaken "jumped the shark"
May 24th, 2007 - 1:03 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss a few more thoughts...
wouldn't ya think jack would want to see who is in the coffin, just to confirm someone is really in it? i mean, he was tortured (and may continue to be in this flash forward) about his father's body missing from his coffin. so whether he is happy or sad (it seems he's sad) about who is in the coffin, maybe he'd really want to ensure they was someone in it. i am also starting to think it may be michael in the coffin.
secondly, think on this. why did locke kill naomi? all we know is we see him walk up to jack and ben fighting about calling the freighter. seems to me that locke would discount ben's words after he just recently shot locke in the chest. jack seems to be aligned with naomi, so what makes locke kill her, unless it's as simple as he doesn't want to be rescued?
why did kate almost hang up on jack when he called her? why is their relationship so strained? and when they did speak on the phone, it seemed the meeting place was a familiar one as if they had other rendezvous there before? and why did jack tell her he is sick of lying? lying about what?
why does jack want to go back so badly? is it because he simply hates his post island-life? are there still LOSTies there he wants to rescue (and couldn't when he was rescued). or is it guilt for leaving LOSTies behind in a self-serving manner (like when he and juliette almost left on the sub and he was willing to leave everyone else behind)?
May 24th, 2007 - 1:08 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss First off, Thanks HL for the "Props" to Wesb and me. I have made it a mission to counter Barnum, and he does a good job keeping me on my toes. I don't think his arguments today hold much water and Wes and I (along with several others) have shot him down.
Couple things:
1.Monica where are you? Don't accept Barnum's marriage proposal on the other thread, you'll be committing to a lifetime of LOST bashing and cynicism!
2.As for the Newspaper article, I think that is a Red Herring. C&L know by now there are plenty of LOST Easter Egg Hunters with the tech know-how to get a good look at the article, so I seriously doubt it would reveal much..
3.It sure seems future Kate is less than fond of Jack. Wonder what leads to that. Also a nice car and a 310 area code (West LA, Bev. Hills, Santa Monica, Malibu) wonder who she's married to... Chuckles Widmore??
May 24th, 2007 - 1:10 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss LB-Your questions are exactly what we all have to theorize about over the next 8 months!
Sad face to the 8 months, not the theorizing! May 24th, 2007 - 1:12 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss sorry for my mini-rant a few posts back, but I'm in a mood - I'm on vaca for the long weekend and it's cold and crappy here...figures, we're going camping! How's it like where you're all at?
Charlies demise was beautifully done. He's a hero. It'll be interesting to see how Desy handles it all now. Not only does he hafta tell Claire, Aaron & Hurley the bad news about Charlie - that'll be heartbreaking all over again... but Desy will get to tell Jack et al that Naomi is/wasn't who she said and that Charlie got a link to the ouside world and Penny.
I think Jack will be the new bug eyes in town finding out that Ben AND Locke were right/telling the truth!!
Nice touch having Aaron cry right at the same moment Charlie passed.
Won't Charlies last note to Claire be all soaked and runny now?! that's ok, the super writing will fix it all!! (umm, I'm bad at sarcasm but that's what that's supposed to be
)The Juliet/Jack kiss... seems to me that Jack was in a way using Jules for her Other's info. Sure, they have a common bond in being doctors and held by Ben, and their time at Othersville, but I think Jack was using her. Jules probably knows that but couldn't resist the kiss.
Sawyer-sad. I don't know why but I didn't really mind him shooting Tom. Yeah, Tom was probably one of the more likeable Others but I think it suited Sawyer's character well. When he (finally) killed Cooper/Sawyer I guess some thought he'd magically let go of his old burdens, but life doesn't work that way. And we wouldn't like him all saintly and nice now - but I hope they don't make him too unredeming and too nasty mean and unlikeable! Nah, that'll never happen! He worked well with Juliet and his scenes with Hurley crack me up, he's so annoyed-big-brotherly to our Hugo. Too cute.
Hurley rocks!! We'd all be very very lucky to have a guy like that in our lives (well, on the island anyway!)
I am so glad the 3 shooters are okey-dokey! And why not Bernard? He's as good as any - and so many people wanted Rose & Bernard back so badly, you'd think it'd be totally plausible for Bernard to have such a big part of this ep!!! Rose's to Jack speech re: " if you say live together die alone I'm gonna punch you in the face" was priceless.
Danielle is pretty cool. I really liked her konking Ben out when he kept yapping... reminded me of the dragon in Shrek punching the stained glass window pic of the prince out so matter-of-factly. Her reunion with Alex was cool but there's more there - more for the next 3 season's I'm betting.
my goodness, a book! my bad
have a happy
HL May 24th, 2007 - 1:16 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss My guess on the person in the coffin could be Rose...maybe her cancer came back after leaving the island....another guess would be Kate's mom....since he thought that he would see her there...is she still WANTED?!?!? and still can't be seen
May 24th, 2007 - 1:25 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss LB, you should copy and save that post of 1:03 and repost it again in January... sounds like a lot of the answers we need/can expect over our next 48 eps!
I can't venture a guess on who was in the coffin! But MAN was tht infuriating last night - the not knowing - and then STILL when it was over, we don't know who it was!?!!? Yeeeeeeeeeek!
my 1st guess is Locke - but I reserve the right to change my mind
May 24th, 2007 - 1:26 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Something that I find interesting is that HE CAN'T get back there. With all of the maps strewn about his room, he is trying to find out where he was, but seems to have no idea, even though he was brought off of the island. Were they drugged vis a vis Juliette when she was brought there? And if so, who exactly did they contact. Also, WE KNOW Naomi was not sent there by Penny, so what exactly was she looking for? The island itself? Are there ppl out there constantly looking for this island anomaly, yet have been unable to find it for many, many years? So many new questions to be added to the old, yet I am so satisfied with the way the finale went.
One theory on the phone call being bad for everyone: What if Ben is actually good, but because of other's inability to see or speak with Jacob, he has to be conniving and a liar. What if Jacob told him no one else was allowed to come and/or the Losties were not allowed to leave the island under any circumstance? Maybe Jacob is going to be the "entity" that kills everyone or at least wreaks havoc with them. The only other person who seems to want to stay on this island is Locke, who also happens to be the only other person we know that has heard Jacob. Maybe the two of them are hearing Jacob and he is telling them that leaving will be catastrophic. We so easily assume that because of the powers of the island, Locke wants to stay here, but maybe the powers are telling him to, even if at times it is subconsiously. Sorry about all of the questions that cannot be answered, but these are just some of my thoughts.
One last thing: The article definitel has a Jo... then the ...latham, Maybe that's a Ja.. and it is Jacob who is in the box? Someone from the island is there, and someone important to boot. From the fold in the paper, I'd be surprised if it was John Locke, only because I don't see how that much of the article is cut out with the crease. Rather I think that the ..Latham part is the last name connected to the first two letters of the first name. The first letter is definitely a J. Alright I'm done rambling.
May 24th, 2007 - 1:33 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss One last thing that I was thinking of...What if the story arc is now Jack's search to get back with the flashbacks being the rest of the time on the island. I mean we seem to think that these were flash forwards, but what if the flashbacks were the scenes on the island, I mean they were, but what if that is now the new narrative structure? How would all of you fans feel about that?
May 24th, 2007 - 1:35 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss PE-I don't think it's Rose in the coffin, just because unless she turned out to be a traitorous fink (hey maybe it's Juliette!) certainly people would have gone to Rose's funeral.
Craig brings up Jacob, maybe the "HELP ME" line was a plea to help keep anyone "good" from leaving or new blood from coming...
HL like your posts, and I Loved Hurley and the van tearing through camp. I still stand by my statements b4 that that particular episode was sub-par at best. Just my opinion.
May 24th, 2007 - 1:36 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss dutch, if the newspaper article is a red herring, it sure elicited a very strong reaction from jack, unless it really wasn't a huge thing, but kinda the straw the broke the camel's back? we can't say for sure that the article made him want to jump off the bridge, but it sure seemed to lead up to it. of course, he wasn't the happiest of campers on the flight either...
May 24th, 2007 - 1:43 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Craig, good stuff on Jacob!
Locke was entirely not in enough of last night's ep!! I still love him... Anyway, so did anyone else expect Locke to say "cuz Jacob said so" when he was trying to convince Jack to put the phone down? I did.
Although now I'm kinda diggin the idea that Jacob's 'Help me' to Locke wasn't maybe so much a plea for help (like, 'help, get me away from this psycho bug-eyed loony dude') but more like a: 'come, join me, help me...do whatever I do on this island..."
hmmmmmmmmmmmm
May 24th, 2007 - 1:49 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Dutch, perhaps the Van ep was subpar because it lacked some Holy WTF moments, which is OK (if they all had big WTF moments then the ones that matter wouldn't be as WTF moments cuz we'd be expecting a WTF moment - what's your fave WTF moment, BTW?!?!?) - but I still enjoyed it... Mostly due to just how friggin frakin cute those 4 guys were working together, and Sawyer and Jin drinking the beers and 'talking' - it was a good, guy bonding ep. I like the cute stuff! Plus Hurley needed a little 'happy' that ep!
May 24th, 2007 - 1:53 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss my fave WTF moment is still "Walkabout" - cuz I just did NOT see the wheelchair thing coming! It was when I really really realized what this show was going to be like - how much it'd have me enthralled, drooling, wanting more...
Desy's flashes ep was chalk full of WTF moments too.
oh my aching head
May 24th, 2007 - 1:57 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss oh, and did ya'all notice the nod to Star Wars? The new Chief of Surgery was Dr. Hamill (first name...Mark?!!?!?) At first I thought he looked like Locke's physical therapist but then I thought - that'd be one heckuva promotion!!
and Sarah being preggers and her snarky 'that would be inappropriate, considering' comment when Jack asked for a ride home... kind ******* Makes me sure her baby's daddy is someone Jack knows.
May 24th, 2007 - 2:00 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss where'd everybody go?!?
oh well
Oh, and I kinda wish they'd put the guest cast - or at least SOME of it - at the end of the ep. Cuz, even though I had this Walt feeling (mostly cuz they showed Walt so much in 'The Answers' thingie, plus Jorge said we'd be seeing Walt 'very soon' when he was on Kimmel the night before) to see his actor's name in the guest cast right away kinda ruined it for me...
well, not really ruined but I sure did expect it
May 24th, 2007 - 2:04 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss I could be wrong but I think Dutch has become obsessed with me. I've never been the object of obsession before. It feels.....tingly.
May 24th, 2007 - 2:06 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss ooh, an anagram for Barnum is Rub Man
hmmm
May 24th, 2007 - 2:13 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss 
May 24th, 2007 - 2:19 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Hmm.
got me thinking.
If Barnum anagrams to "rub man" or "man rub" (shudder)...
"Greybishop" doesn't anagram to anything really good, but "The Greybishop" anagrams to "SIP THY BEER, HOG" which makes pretty good sense...
May 24th, 2007 - 2:21 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss barnum? you're feeling tingly?
May 24th, 2007 - 2:22 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss nice anagram, GB!
May 24th, 2007 - 2:26 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss LB -
Any time I can slip "beer" into something involving my name, that's a good day...
May 24th, 2007 - 2:51 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss GB-yea, but the "hog" part may make me switch to lite beer. dharma brand, of course!
May 24th, 2007 - 3:28 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss OK Barnum, let's not let this get out of hand. I don't want to inflate your ego here. I know there would be a resounding amount of disappointment in the Purple Hatch if I (Desmond-like newbie to the PH) didn't keep your commentary in perspective. Already looks like Monica has joined the Dark Side, a crushing blow to the LOST supporters. Monica again, Say it aint so!
We'll win you back and maybe someday we'll even get Barnum back in the flockAlso LOSTBEAN your post at 1:36PM, I think the article was a Red Herring to us, obviously not to Jack. I suspect it may well be someone whom gets introduced later or is living now under a pseudonym, it may in fact be the FINAL big Reveal....
Also HL-Dr. Hamill and Locke's Physical Therapist, can't recall for sure, but knowing this show its certainly possible. Have to wait for the DVDs to come out to check on that one.
May 24th, 2007 - 3:37 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss HappyLisa: "Again, I don't get Barnum but dig his right to have his opinions, altho I'll never understand watching a show just to pull out all the stuff you hate, dislike, whatever. And Barnum, seems to me (the little I know of you) that you purposely look for the stuff to nit-pick and dis and hate on. Can't ya just sit back and, for even one post, just talk about what you DID like?!"
HL - If you "dig" Barnum's right to his opinions, why so much berating? You are just like him, only you are the pollyanna version. If someone truly hated the show, I don't think they would watch it for the SOLE reason of picking on it because that's just silly. But when you really love or at least like (or want to like) the show and it constantly lets you down, especially when it had/has such potential, you need to vent. You seem content to buy 100% of whatever CC and DL are selling, regardless of whether or not it even makes sense. You have blind faith in the show and that's fine, but respect the fact that not all of us can make that leap like you can - so please don't tell us to "lighten up" as if your opinion is more valid than ours.
If they are presenting plotlines and characters as though they are relevant, they need to not leave so many loose ends. If it was important enough to introduce and practically have it reach through our TV screens and say "LOOK AT ME! I am a genius plot device created by CC and DL. You must not ignore me for I might actually mean something (DISCLAIMER: I might not mean anything at all, but please know that CC and DL are still geniuses and therefore, let them have their fun no matter how much you and your enjoyment of the show may suffer because of it).", then it should be important enough to explain. Personally, I think DL and CC are trying to one up each other to see who can cram more meaningless cr@p and silly anagrams into these episodes. I can throw around names of philosphers and create anagrams all day long, but DOES IT REALLY MEAN ANYTHING or am I just trying to make people think I am smarter than I really am?
I do agree that we may not FULLY understand what was relevant and what was not until the show is totally over, but I think a few years is a long time to leave your viewers hanging over piddly ***** especially if they may never even bother to answer many of our questions. They have introduced so much stuff and I am sure that they will continue to, so there is no way they are going to be able to explain it all by the end of the show. You may be okay with that, but I'm not.
May 24th, 2007 - 3:48 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss what if it's jacob in the coffin? we see a "j" in the newspaper clipping, so i guess it's possible. and we don't know jacob's last name...
hey MONICA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! how goes it, sister?
May 24th, 2007 - 3:52 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Hey Beaner!!! Oh, it definitely goes. How are you? I am finally getting on track with work. Still doing a lot of training classes, but I am not quite as incredibly as I have been lately.
I was thinking of you during the finale every time I saw Jack with his beard. I remember how we used to argue over him. I've changed my mind now. You can have him... well, you can have Future Jack anyway.
May 24th, 2007 - 3:53 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss so, gut feeling question for everyone...
do you think jack didn't want the coffin opened because of WHO was inside, or perhaps how this person looked as a result of their death?
i can't imagine dead bodies gross out dr. jack, so it was either a horrific horrific site, or he can't bare to face the reality of who is in there.
May 24th, 2007 - 4:02 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss monica!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! so, what's the new job title? training is always nice cuz you get smarter and they pay for it.
May 24th, 2007 - 4:06 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Hey Monica!!!
Good to see you!! You had me giggling this morning when I was reading your posts from last night!!
May 24th, 2007 - 4:10 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss C4L - Hi! And I didn't even stub my toe once running to the computer to make my comments!
Beaner - I am still in insurance, but for the last 2 and a half months, I have been working at State Farm (technically, I don't work FOR State Farm - I work for a State Farm agent - but to make it simpler, I usually just say that I work for State Farm). I love my job! It is just so overwhelming with all I have to learn in order to do it. I am the Health Insurance Specialist, the Bank Specialist, and the Condo Specialist - so I wear a lot of hats at my office.
May 24th, 2007 - 4:11 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Jeez, Monica, you told me
WTF?!I need to Wikipedia Pollyana now cuz that's way above my meanial knowledge!
I didn't mean 'lighten up' in a 'I'm smarter than you' fashion - the opposite, actually. I merely meant lighten up as if to say: it's just a TV show! And it's going on for a few more years and so to not have patience or to expect every little thing to have meaning or reason is silly. And it does appear to me - my opinion - that all Barnum does is ****** So perhaps he likes the show for that reason but all his posts are so nasty and negative. I can pass them by, I usually do, but for the most part I like to get everyone's opinions on the show. Even yours. And if he can berate me/us for liking it for all the reasons I do, then I can berate back cuz that's the way a discussion board should go.
Besides, in one post he says how 'he just knows' that such and such is going to happen... he's setting himself up to be p.o.'d (again, my opinion!)
And I never claimed a love for DL & CC or to blindly follow everything they write. But I do enjoy the show for all my reasons.
Just leave me alone.
And since I'm new here I suppose GB will send me a little note to be nice to the class, but man I hate mood killers, especially those I deem smart-alecky.
May 24th, 2007 - 4:12 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Good job on not stubbing your toe!!! It did make me remember when we had our chats during the show!!
Cool deal Monica!!! I hope to soon get back into the insurance world!!
Glad to hear things are "starting" to calm down a bit for you!
May 24th, 2007 - 4:17 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Ok, now everybody lighten up!
Sheesh.
May 24th, 2007 - 4:21 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Good to see you GB!!
May 24th, 2007 - 4:22 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss GROUP HUG!
also, a new rule going forward-look for the best in people-don't judge until you know ALL the facts. we all have the common denominator of our obsession with this show, so remember that and that we all LOVE it, and you'll see folks in a diff. light.
even barnum (WINK!)
May 24th, 2007 - 4:26 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Hey C4L!
Just catching up on the day's posts before I dive back in to the writing.
You folks have been busy!
Oh and Mon, HL, I'm not gonna take sides, but let's not let this go any futher, k?
Everyone here has an opinion. Everyone is entitled to it. Everyone here is a grown up. And everyone here can disagree in an adult fashion.
If they can't...
Get me?
May 24th, 2007 - 4:27 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss HL - I really wasn't trying to pick on you. I just didn't think that you were being as fair to everyone else's opinions as you seemed to think and I don't think it is right to deem people to be Lost-haters just because they find fault with the show. It really isn't just a TV show - or else we wouldn't all be here.
If my post was a "mood killer," what do you call yours? You initially created a ranting post about people who you claimed don't like the show because they keep picking it apart. I simply responded because I thought it was an unfair statement. I appreciate everyone's input on this board. I just prefer debating opinions as opposed to writing off everyone who disagrees with you.
Besides, Barnum's posts may be nasty and negative sometimes, but not towards people posting here (though he may disagree vehemently with some people's opinions), just towards the show. If he was nasty to people posting here, GB wouldn't allow it. And you say he has the right to express his opinion, but you still have a problem with not just the opinion, but also the expression - and I have a problem with that. But it isn't anything personal.
May 24th, 2007 - 4:30 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss C4L - Insurance is quite an industry to work in. Very very very hectic, but also very satisfying. I hope you do get back into it at some point. I remember our chats too - such fun! I was about to invest in a pair of steel-toes boots before when I was at the height of the toe-stubbing era, but hopefully that's not going to be necessary after all.
May 24th, 2007 - 4:32 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss it's all good now. lotsa dharma love in the purple hatch.
so, i wanna hear what everyone thinks about who is in the coffin? i first said sawere or locke. then jack's bad twin. then michael. now, jacob. if i keep guessing, i'll get it right eventually.
monica-jack of all insurance trades! good for you! you sound happy. condo insurance queen? i may have some questions for you! how did uncle handle your departure?
May 24th, 2007 - 4:34 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss oh, and monica? when do i get to see pics of all the painting you did in the apt? i actually painted an accent wall in my bedroom. it's the color of milk chocolate...makes me crave hershey's more than ever! (MOO)
May 24th, 2007 - 4:35 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss OK, I've just scanned a few posts and haven't read any commentary, but here's my initial reaction:
1. Favorite scene -the long-lost mother-daughter bonding moment beteen Danielle and Alex that concludes with Danielle suggesting that they tie up Ben together. That alone made the whole ep worthwhile.
2. Sawyer was never going to be redeemed by killing Cooper, as has been shown over the past few eps. His killing of Tom continued his quest for vengeance.
3. The Cooper storyline was as much Sawyer's storyline as Locke's and is still playing out. Cooper was brought to the island to manipulate Locke, either through coercion or humiliation. It worked initially, but has begun to fail as Ben's hold on power slips away. (Locke carrying Cooper on his shoulder reminded me of the Atlas and Heracles myth, in which Heracles asks Atlas's help in obtaining the apples of the Garden of the Hesperides, Atlas asks him to shoulder his burder of the sky while he does so, Heracles agrees but Atlas refuses his burden when he returns, Heracles agrees to hold the sky for eternity if only Atlas will take it for a moment while Heracles gets more comfortable, and then Heracles picks up the apples and walks away.)
4. Theory: Jacob appeared to Locke as Walt (through Smokey) and ordered him to kill Naomi. The dust around Jacob's cabin is possibly Smokey-dust.
5. Ben went alone to confront Jack and the Losties because 1, he has no one left to really trust; 2, he is a megalomaniac and actually thought that he had the power to make Jack do his bidding (going back to his statement earlier in the season that he wanted Jack to want to save him).
6. I'm still undecided if this was a flash-forward to our Losties current universe or a parallel one. It has echoes of Michael Crichton's Timeframe. It's possible that in this universe, Jack did not accuse his father of being drunk during surgery and Kate did not kill her (step)father. Or it's the whole Yoda thing about the future always changing.
7. Or it's an Einstein thing. If all time exists at all moments, than one can theoreticall move backwards and forwards in time. I'm still working on this since it's been a very long time since I've read basic Einstein (and understood very little).
8. Loved Hurley saving the day with the bus.
May 24th, 2007 - 4:38 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss I do blindly follow everything they write. And I'm ok with that.
May 24th, 2007 - 4:39 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Beaner - How did he handle my departure? That may be a story for another time and a bottle of tequila. It was quite the theatrical event at the time. And good god, you painted a wall!!!!??!?!? An actual color?!?!?! This is ten times more exciting and unpredictable than anything that has ever happened on Lost. About my apartment, I did finally find my camera-computer connector cord. I am making a note to take pictures for you. I promised that many moons ago and just like your book that you loaned me, you will eventually get them - I swear.
GB - No worries. I have said what I needed to say and have retreated to my corner. I've got nothing but love for all my hatch-mates.
May 24th, 2007 - 4:51 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Yowcho! Barnum looks like you've got competition! Monica's going to be a bigger challenge than I thought!
May 24th, 2007 - 4:56 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Dutch -
And Monica's "handle" doesn't anagram to "rub man". {shudder}
May 24th, 2007 - 5:02 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss OK now my real post, looks like GB already smoothed the ruffled feathers of now "un" Happy Lisa and Mrs. Monica Barnum (they were wed earlier today in the Hatch)
Let's keep this in perspective
1.This is a TV Show, with a serious Sci-Fi element no less.
2.I never got the feeling that C&L (BTW seems JJ's pretty much out of the picture) have been playing us for fools, or that they thought they were so smart and clever. Had this been the 80s or 90s maybe they would have seemed so, but with the $$$ realities of Hollywood and the actors, as well as TV ratings as well as fan blogs giving instant commentary and opinions, they C&L have done a great job of keeping a sensical storyline going, and VERY entertaining to boot! I mean back in the days of "Who Shot J.R" who actually got to voice a public opinion about how the show was going, how it was going to play out etc...Not people like us that's for sure. As for C&L being clever, apparently they are clever enough to get $10M contracts to write a TV SHOW! Greybishop, Charlotte introduce me to the Power brokers of the writing world I'm in the wrong profession!
3.Regarding the names meaning anything, I think Doc. Jensen probably hit it best with keeping the philosophers concepts in mind, rather than each character with such name as a LOST replica of them.
4.As for each bit and piece meaning something, sure there are a lot of loose ends, What the heck is Rousseau's story, what's up with the Black Rock, How'd Alpert not age etc. etc. etc. I'm sure we'll find most of this out eventually, they tell us now, we are discussing the Series Finale not the Season Finale!
OK I'm off my box of soap for a while, I am going to start a new thread to get input on LOST scorecard after S1,S2 and S3 and for Barnum and Monica, I think you'll see S3 really DID reveal a lot.
May 24th, 2007 - 5:02 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss I tried to look up pollyana but it's no where and I'm too tired to care.
I just have one thing then it's dropped forever, my 'rant' earlier was no more than my opinion. I said "two things I dislike" (I meaning me, Lisa, and dislike meaning, things I, Lisa, don't like). I never said that's the way others should be, or how others should view the show. Yeah, I said 'lighten up' which was completely taken out of context.
And I called it a rant, which it barely was AND I APOLIGIZED for ranting. That's to say, if ya didn't like what I said then I'm sorry.
Yet I feel attacked.
I'm thinking being called pollyana has something to do with how I view things in the positive, hopefully bright side of things... well, to me that's better than feeling ugly about so much. Why be negative for negative's sake.
I feel pretty negative right now and I sure the heck don't like it.
And that's all I have to say about that.
(but when I post it's my OPINION. I know that, cuz it comes out of my head, thru my fingers and onto this pretty purple board)
May 24th, 2007 - 5:07 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Ah, Dutch, so few people in the writing world actually make enough money to quit their day jobs. You have to love it to do it. There is very little in the book world that qualifies as the quick way to riches. Play the lottery. Your odds are better.
May 24th, 2007 - 5:12 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Wow couldn't stay off the box of Tide for very long apparently, but a couple other items to add to previous post;
5.comparing a hit show to one of the 80s or 90s, Cable wasn't the huge competitor it now is, and there weren't any (or nearly as many) of the electronic gadgets and alternatives competing for viewers attention as well.
6.(This should stoke everyone's ego, even Barnum's is OK) I think it is fair to say that overall the IQ level of LOST viewers is higher than that of many other programs. I mean if you're not smart, you'd be totally in the dark on this show! Big Brother, American IDiOtL you can ratchet the attention level and intelligence requirements down several notches. And hey, sometimes that's fun. Although I refuse to watch AI. Absolute Anaethma! (sp?)
In any case, it is fair to see the posts and commentary of the Barnum family because as intelligent TV viewers they do have high expectations of things meaning something. A-type personalities need answers and they need them now dammit!
OK Monica, hopefully I've buttered you up enough I can now suggest you get an annulment from Mr. Barnum, hurry before it's too late! I feel like Jacob in the chair..."HELP ME"....
May 24th, 2007 - 5:16 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Charlotte-Geez now armed with that knowledge I think I need to try and piggy back off of Jack's Oxycodone prescription...
Someone get me a drink!HL-No need to get your feathers ruffled, I've been called much worse, I'm sure Barnum has too. Also I suggest you don't entrust your "fact" finding to Wikipedia....
May 24th, 2007 - 5:26 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Dutch, I've said it before and I'll say it again - I just don't like getting jerked around. And that's what I feel that they have been doing to the viewers, especially during Season 3. They made a show that basically had a prerequisite of high expectations in order to watch it and really get into it. And they delivered for a while, but they really let off the gas as the show has gone on.
I'll request the annulment when they start meeting those high expectations again. My main point is that they have more than enough material to be able to consistently deliver, but they've been falling flat time and time again and I just don't get it. I don't necessarily need ALL the answers, but when they try to make everything seem important and 75% of it ends up not being relevant (or at least not relevant until much farther down the line), I get ticked off because I feel we deserve a much better ratio.
May 24th, 2007 - 5:26 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss HL - "Pollyana" refers to the title character of a book and Disney movie (starring Haley Mills) who is optimistic in spite fo what life throws at her. At least until the end. She seemed a bit bummed out after falling out of that tree.
Sorry, Dutch. To be honest, writing is a very hard profession, and it's just plain hard work. And if anyone thinks that keeping track of multiple characters and multiple storylines is easy, I have a half-finished novel I'd like to send you. Maybe you can finish it.
May 24th, 2007 - 5:30 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Monica -
Other than the big island/series ending mysteries, most of the questions from the first two seasons have been answered. Since we're a little over halfway through the narrative arc of the story, I'd say that's actuall pretty good.
May 24th, 2007 - 5:34 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Charlotte - You must have different questions than I because my count is nowhere near the almost-all-have-been-answered stage. What happened to Beaner's list of questions? Have most of those been answered? And it wasn't even anywhere near complete, I don't think for seasons one and two - was it? And it also depends on what you count as a series-end relevant question and what you don't. But then again, we don't really know which ones are series-end relevant, do we? That was the one point I agreed with HL on.
May 24th, 2007 - 5:40 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Good point Charlotte. Yes I think the odds of becoming the next Stephen King or John Steinbeck is about as good as making it in the Big Leagues of any sport. I agree with your analysis on the answers we've been given that developed in S1 and S2 and what we know now. Also I'll speak only for myself but I was on the edge of my seat last night watching the show. Can't say any other TV program has done that for me in a long time, maybe ever!
Monica-One thing with the seemingly important points that don't resurface for a long time, Hurley's van was a perfect example. I'm sure 99% of us saw that ep. and said this Magic Bus thing is total filler, what was the point of that? Well turns out Roger Workman had a story and the Van itself made a brilliant cameo reapperance! In fairness being on a magically Island allows for a lot of leeway in what can happen, but at least they (C&L) didn't forget about the Dharma Bus and leave it to the episode archives.
May 24th, 2007 - 5:49 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Monica - I think the series-ending questions are fairly obvious: what and where is the island, who controls it, and what are the mysterious powers it possesses?
As for the questions from Season 1 (other than those above), the only major questions I can still think of are:
1. What happened to Christian Shephard's corpse?
2. Is Rousseau telling the truth about what happened to her group?
3. What is the significance of the numbers? (answered off-series so it doesn't count)
4. What, exactly, is Smokey (though this is probably tied in with the big questions above)?
From Season 2:
1. Why are there "quarantine" signs inside the hatches?
2. Why was the Beechcraft there?
3. What happened to DHARMA off-island and why are there still supply drops?
4. Why was Libby in the mental hospital with Hurley, and was her meeting with Desmond accidental?
5. Did the purple sky event have effects other than knocking out communications (if it even did)?
Those are the only big questions I can think of, and some of them probably don't need to be answered.
May 24th, 2007 - 5:54 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss You guys seem to keep missing my point. I am not saying that I think anything is "filler." In fact, it is more the opposite. An overwhelming amount of information is being presented to me as being relevant, so that's how I take it. It may or may not end up to be - and that's not even the main problem. It is how frequently this happnes.
What is ultimately going to end up in the archives? Maybe not the VW and Roger (which hadn't even been lingering all that long before being resolved, in the Lost scheme of things anyway), but there are too many d@mn loose ends from way before that I think C&L are just skipping over. Maybe they will come back to them in time and maybe they won't, but if they don't, what was the freakin point? I can tolerate a few red herrings here and there, but this has been too much.
May 24th, 2007 - 5:58 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Charlotte -
I don't mean this offensively at all, but who are you to determine what the big questions are and which ones actually need to be answered? That's why I said I think we have a different view of what questions are left to be answered. My list is much longer, and from the little list you made, much different as well. It may seem "fairly obvious" to you, but I think it's a very debatable subject (not that I really want to get into it). And while YOU may not think that some of them need to be answered, others do, including myself.
May 24th, 2007 - 6:09 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Monica - A lot of the books I read don't provide answers for all of the questions raised, and don't neatly tie-up all of the loose ends. That's just what I'm used to, so not having all of the answers doesn't bother me.
As for the questions, I do think the series ending questions are obvious because they're what the storyline is building to. I'm willing to consider other questions, but those are the ones that I came up with. I do think that there are a lot of minor questions, but to me they are not important in the overall narrative arc.
May 24th, 2007 - 6:15 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Yowcho! At some point there is going to be a Kate-Juliette like Jungle Throw Down right here in the Purple Hatch! Monica can be Kate, Charlotte/HL or myself can play the role of Juliette unless Greybishop would like to sub. he seems to have a penchant for Hot, steamy mud wrestling with a female!
Have to say, Monica, I don't think ANYONE in here is the "authority" on what is or isn't important. I do think it's fair to say that there is a laundry list in descending order of Importance from Series Crucial to minor minutia (ie. how did Drive Shaft's comeback ever work out, how many albums did they sell etc..)
Charlotte I like your list and to me there are some important things that MUST be answered, some red herrings that are there to throw the LOST hounds off the scent and the rest to me is just an hour's worth of TV entertainment once a week. Thumbs up to that!
May 24th, 2007 - 6:20 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Have to say, Dutch, I NEVER said that anyone here was the authority on what's important, especially myself. All I did was point out that while everyone has a different view of what is or is not important in the grand scheme of things, I feel there are just way too many things that we need to consider in our own personal quests to figure out what we think needs to be resolved on Lost before the series ends.
And there is not going to be any kind of a throwdown because it's not at all personal. It's just that I feel like you guys keep putting words in my mouth and I feel a need to clarify.
May 24th, 2007 - 6:21 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Now, Dutch, this is civilized debate, not mud wrestling (though my hair does get like a cross between Kate's and Juliet's in the humidity). GB has warped your mind.
(Yeah, GB, I know why you were underwhelmed: no hot babe wrestling.)
May 24th, 2007 - 6:26 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Monica, perhaps if you were to give examples of questions unanswered, maybe Charlotte or Dutch or Barnum or GB etc could offer some insight. Maybe you missed something; maybe somethings warrant another look. Some of the ideas I form come from other's posts... gets me thinking.
I thought Charlotte's list of questions unanswered was a good start. I guess I have some too, but none I deem important enough to bring up. I can wait for the answers, or have fun disgussing them, or whatever.
and this was the dictionary definition of pollyana: "a person regarded as being foolishly or blindly optimistic." Sounds like me, so if the name fits, just call me
HAPPYLisa May 24th, 2007 - 6:33 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss No Hot steamy muddy jungle wrestling? Bishop I'm just as disappointed as you!
May 24th, 2007 - 7:38 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss GET OUT THE BABYOIL GB.. I think we have the potential for a wrestling match!!
HAPPYLISA VS MONICA THE GREAT
Bah.. just trying to keep the cat fight going. petty of me I know.
Charlotte, with all of your knowledge in writing / books..I am sure you want to school me every time you read something I have written!!! ( if you dont skip over it like I did after reading the first 2 HL and Monica exchange)
I think J Locke is in the casket
I do think there will be people that choose to stay on the island and Jack / Kate will be 2 of them. What's Kate have to go back to? She is a fugative. She is going to jail, why would you want to go home?
-Jack is clearly depressed
-Hurley is completely unlucky BUT RICH
-John Locke is paralized
-Sawyer just killed someone so I am sure he is wanted as well
-Sun and Jin are under daddy wrath
-Juliet only has her sister, if she is still alive
etc etc etc...
I believe these things will be brought to the table. I believe these people will be given the choice and they will choose to stay. I mean, Dominic doesnt even want to leave the set.. I dont know... just something I believe is going to happen. Because like room 23 says... EVERYTHING CHANGES.
May 24th, 2007 - 8:08 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Hello all!
I'm wondering if the new 'flash forward' will tie into the same timeframe & storyline as last summer's online experience? It just seems, with all the effort and resources to stage the 'OE', it would be logical to continue the plotline on TV.
I like Craig's suggestion that next season's 'flashbacks' may explain the consequences of each of our losties decision to be rescued or remain on the island.
The parallel times concept is very interesting but it may be too complicated to explain on TV.
May 25th, 2007 - 5:28 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss ok, just for grins...
http://peskyquestions.blogspot.com/
i haven't looked at it yet (just finally found it in the archives)...these were the questions we felt were "important" when GB started recapping season one for us. in our downtime this summer (and fall and part of the winter
), we can see how many were answered and add to the list (GB will have to remind me how to do this-it's been so long...). May 25th, 2007 - 5:44 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss oh, ok. i have yet ANOTHER guess who is in the casket. first i said sawyer or locke. then i thought michael. then i thought jacob. now i think it's juliette. i base all of these on the reactions we get from blackbeard jack and kate. jack was devastated when he read the article. we know there was some kind of connection (and may still be, despite his pronounced love to kate) between J&J. and kate seeming almost replused by jack's question of if she went to the viewing show me the jealousy of juliette could still be lingering. now, no one showed for the viewing and that may be hard to believe it's juliette as close as she and her sister were, but remember, juliette, as far as we currently know, lost total communication with her sister. her sister could be resentful for that.
i just had a thought...whomever is in the coffin must be someone that was NOT on flight 815, because we learn that the wreckage was apparently found, in tact no less, and everyone was dead. that said, you can't die twice, so that now rules out sawyer, locke, and michael (as far as my guesses go).
May 25th, 2007 - 6:46 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss EB - I try to turn that part of my brain off and remind myself that what goes on in the hatch is written, informal conversation. (I'm on the side of the fence that believes that converational language is less formal than written language. The fact that I debate this question on occasion should tell you how much of a language geek I am.) So don't stress about it.
As for who I believe is in the casket, I'm going with Mr. James Ford. The seedy neighborhood of the funeral parlor is a big clue, as are Jack and Kate's reactions. Somehow, Jack becomes closer (in a guy-bonding kind of way) with Sawyer, while Kate and Sawyer pull further apart. Besides, Sawyer had no one to come to the funeral, other than Losties (and I don't think Cassidy would have shown).
The other possibility would be Michael, but when he crashed, he had a mother. There's also the issue of Walt, but I'm still working on my Walt theory (that he is still on the island, and Jacob is manifesting him both on the island - to Locke - and on the boat to Michael as they sail around in circles). But Kate's reaction is way too strong for it to be Michael. For similar reasons I dismiised Locke. Juliet? Possible, but I don't think that Jack would have expected Kate to go to her funeral.
As for when the flash forward was taking place, it was obviously at least some months after the presumed rescue. Jack had flown to Asia several times since then, and there had been time for Oceanic to settle up with the survivors, and for someone to deal with Kate's fugitive issue.
May 25th, 2007 - 7:03 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss like i said before, you can't die twice, so even if you had no family or friends prior to the crash, the list of deceased (with pictures and short bios) were more than likely printed in many a newspaper following the crash (especially L.A. as many people were from that area), so i don't think any of our LOSTies are in that coffin because someone would recognize the name in that article jack was reading and suspect something was wrong or off.
May 25th, 2007 - 7:14 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss LB - I'm not sure what you're saying, as the Losties aren't dead (as per C&L). And apparently people knew about the rescue, as one of the people at the pharmacy mentioned that Jack was a hero "twice."
May 25th, 2007 - 7:57 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss ahhh...right charlotte. i was thinking about naomi and cooper saying they (815 passengers) were all dead, but since we saw this flashforward this week, i guess naomi and cooper were lying. ok, so now i say it is sawyer in the coffin. or locke. or michael. or jacob. or juliette.
May 25th, 2007 - 8:13 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss RE: Speculation of who is in the coffin, it could be someone we know at this point or someone who has yet to be introduced or named. The biggest thing on reflection that stands out to me is that OBVIOUSLY a lot happens from now until the end of the series where (time period) I assume Blackbeard (Our scraggly bearded, junky Jack of the future)is now residing. I found it extremely odd that Sarah would come down to the hospital (as the Emergency contact) to see how Jack was, yet she wouldn't give him a ride home from the hospital??? A Ride! It would have been "inappropriate". Hmmm...
Couple that with Kate's snarky attitude towards Blackbeard and you get the appearance that he is being blamed by a lot of parties for a lot of things. I recall Christian Sheppard explaining to a young Jack (as he poured himself a drink) that he had a lot of "Responsibilities and Life and Death Decisions" and it was what drove him to drink. I can only assume that Island Jack had similar such responsibilities and there will be blood on his hands, at least in the lifetime we saw end of S3.... May 25th, 2007 - 8:37 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Lostpedia has screen clips of the newspaper and article, and they are reporting the newspaper date as April 5, 2007 (LA Times). It could be the date that the flash-forward takes place, the date that they shot the scene, or the date of the newspaper that had a convenient looking article for Jack to tear out.
May 25th, 2007 - 9:00 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss hey charlotte-can you post that link you spoke of that shows the newspaper clipping?
May 25th, 2007 - 9:15 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss LB - It's on Lostpedia.com. Go to the episode recap (on the first page). The "newspaper" discussion links to pictures of the article. I leave the obsessive screen clip scanning to people who know how to do those things.
May 25th, 2007 - 9:45 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss I saw that! So.. by putting the date at April 2007- This is roughly 3 years from the time on the Island when they are rescued.. so.. my questions for all you smarty pants out there.. why would this effect the # of shows left and why can they only have 48 episode left?
May 25th, 2007 - 9:51 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss EB-in the podcast i just listend to, C&L felt the remainder story that had to tell fit into 3, 16 ep segments perfectly for how they watned to tell it.
for those of you who think C&L are pompous or arrogant or whatever, you should listen to these podcasts because 1) they are informative (they answer a lot of viewer questions) and 2) these guys are SO funny. you see a side of them you didn't see in the answers show last week. and, their voices are used in actual ep's-both of them were in this last ep i think. CC's is used more often cuz he has a very good voice. you don't have to have an ipod to listen-you can download itunes for free and listen to it there, or they may be abc.com too (not sure-i go the itunes route).
May 25th, 2007 - 9:58 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Ay Caramba!
I take one night off from checking in at the purple hatch and all hell breaks loose!
I don't want to stir things up again but let me just say I have an even deeper respect for and devotion to Monica than I did on the day we were pseudo wed!
As to the current question at hand: I've always said that the lack of answers is only part of the problem. The other part, the bigger part, is the fact that more often than not the answers we do get are so d@mn stupid {e.g., Jack, Kate and Sawyer were kidnapped because...Ben had a spinal tumor (which just coincidently happens to be Jack's specialty): give me a f*cking break!}. Hey, that's just this haters opinion.
May 25th, 2007 - 10:04 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Barnum - What would have been a good reason to kidnap Jack, Kate, and Sawyer? The tumor angle at least was life and death, and paralled the Locke storyline. I agree that some answers have been let-downs, but I'd say the balance have been interesting and have developed the story.
May 25th, 2007 - 10:26 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Charlotte, the problems that I have with the tumor answer are as follows:
a.) It strains credulity. Ben has the very type of tumor that Jack can operate on? Puh-lease. This is made even more improbable now that it has been established that the crash was a random event and Ben had nothing to do with it.
b.) I don't know, spinal tumors just seems so...soap opera-ish. It doesn't fit in at all with what was up until that point the seeming originality and outside the box thinking of the show.
c.) This was widely discussed last fall (and no one agreed with me then, either) but just logistically it makes no sense: Ben had the ability to leave the island to be operated on and didn't; the others had ALREADY captured Jack, Kate, Sawyer (AND Locke) in the s2 episode in which Michael ran off after Walt and let them go. Plus the fact that there is no way Jack would have declined to operate if asked and if they really had the omniscient knowledge of the losties that the 2 bozos have established that they do they would have known this. (BTW, the fact that they had Locke and let him go is yet another reason that the whole Locke/Cooper plot line from s3 makes no sense).
d.) I don't care what anyone says there was no reason at all for Sawyer to have been included. If they were determined to extort Jack into operating they could have just threatened to kill Kate.
In short, it's stupid in pretty much every way imaginable.
What do I think would have been a better reason? Off the top of my head I have no idea. But then I'm a mathematician, not an eight figure salaried professional writer. It's their job to make the show plausible enough that one can easily suspend one's disbelief. If they couldn't think of a way out of the hole they dug themselves into when they devoted the 2nd half of season 2 (and the first half of season 3) to the kidnapping plot then they should have instead written a different plot that made sense.
May 25th, 2007 - 11:01 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Barnum - I do agree with parts of what you are saying. But here goes:
a. Well, pretty much the entire show strains credulity, with all of the interconnections between the characters. It is a show about fate, however, so I just go with it.
b. Spinal tumors happen, even outside of soap operas (my brother had one). It does show an exception to the "magical island healing properties" idea, and exceptions are interesting.
c. The scene at the line (season 2) is problematic, depending on your interpretation. This is something that I doubt will ever be fully explained or reconciled, but I can see that Jack, et al. may have caught the Others unaware at that time. I don't think there were quite as many Others at the line as they pretended, and they were outgunned.
As for Ben, his first instinct is always to manipulate. He can't see someone acting for purely altruistic reasons without some type of manipulation involved.
d. Agreed, if Sawyer was just there to get Jack to perform surgery. It could also have been to get Sawyer and Kate to have sex and conceive.
May 25th, 2007 - 2:13 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss OK, a perfect opportunity to respond to a Barnum post, good to see you back down here after a day off.
In fairness Barnum, you're right, Ben having a tumor that Jack could remove is unlikely. HOWEVER, Jack was a spinal surgeon from the get-go and by having Ben need surgery (which they were able to work into the story at a later time. Remember neither Ben nor Jack were supposed to be in this for the long haul), it gave a reason to abduct him and bring him (Jack) to Othersville. Why Sawyer and Kate? We don't yet know.
But really don't you think Ben needing Jack for a spine surgery makes much more sense than Ben needing and abducting Sawyer so he could learn the Art of the Con? Apparently Ben got taken with the same scam Greybishop nearly fell for from Scotia Bank and now he's on the warpath for revenge!
OK that would have been a funnier storyline than the spinal tumor, but even less plausible! May 25th, 2007 - 2:32 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Charlotte,
Sorry to hear about your brother. I hope he is o.k. now.
And you are correct of course that some degree of suspension of disbelief is required of pretty much any sci-fi/supernatural type show. I could and did suspend my disbelief all through The X-Files (Dutch, insert your Duchovney opinion here), Alias, Star Trek(s) and for that matter with s1 Lost (and even 3 episodes into s2). But I do think there is a telling difference with Lost as it now stands and that is this: it seems to me that at this point ALMOST all Lost has going for it is its format as a serialized mystery.
Alias is a good counter example because there are many similarities between the 2 shows (both created by J.J. Abrams, too). Alias too had an overriding mythology (some mystery about a renaissance era Nostradamus-like figure named Rimbaldi whose prophecies were supposed to lead to the end of the world or some such silliness) but it didn’t bother me because the show had so much more going for it. Interesting characters with meaningful relationships between them, excitement, major plot twists on a regular basis (ones that could be entirely justified by the plot of the story and what had occurred before in the storyline) and season-long story arcs that were more or less independent of this larger mystery. In short, on Alias all this Rimbaldi stuff was just the McGuffin (being a Hitchcock fan I’m sure you know what that is).
Now, in my opinion, Lost has become ALL McGuffin. It has become nothing more than that which it is supposedly leading up to. The individual components (the characters, the individual stories and the flashbacks (oh, good God, the flashbacks)) stopped being independent, good features of the show and have become little more than what serves as the platform to deliver the mysteries that will supposedly be solved in 3 years time. And if the overriding mystery ends up being good enough this can still work. Many books and movies that might otherwise be just o.k. can be saved by a dynamite ending. The problem is that there is mounting evidence that the mystery is itself a hoax, a mirage, a dud, and that these particular writers aren’t up to the task of pulling it all together and bringing it to a coherent resolution. That’s why I can’t just sit back and enjoy the ride, try as I might (and I am trying. I AM still watching, after all). This is not like a cruise of the Caribbean where the ride itself is delightful. It’s more like endlessly traveling up and down the New Jersey Turnpike. The ride isn’t particularly pleasant and at the end of it all you find yourself still in New Jersey.
Does any of this make sense?
May 25th, 2007 - 2:33 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Has anyone been the the EW board today? Is there anything interesting, or is it mainly the "did anyone else notice...[something obvious]" and "why didn't they just cut the cable?" (remind me never to hire any of those people to do electrical work on my house)?
May 25th, 2007 - 4:03 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss I just want you all to know I'm afraid to say anything now. I don't want to get flamed
Just kidding (sort of). May 25th, 2007 - 4:16 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Don't worry Jas65, nobody's gonna
ANYBODY in my hatch.I'm pretty content to lay back and enjoy the threads here, but EVERYONE knows my rules and I will NOT let anyone feel that they can't post because they might be attacked personally. Period.
Now. Move on citizens. Go about your business... Nothing to see here...
May 25th, 2007 - 4:53 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Well, i just started my Lostathon weekend (like I'm going to go to the movies tonight!), and I just finished watching the first half of the pilot. Some interesting things:
The first thing Jack does when he stands up is pull a small bottle of alcohol from his pocket. Later on the plane, we see him remarking to Cindy the Stewardess that his drink wasn't very strong. She gives him two bottles, one which he puts in his pocket, the other which he downs pretty quickly right away. This was an interesting parallel to the scenes of Jack drinking in the season finale, especially when the stewardess refused to serve him any more alcohol.
Kate starts early with her "I want to go along" theme.
Sawyer and Locke have no dialogue, though Locke is seen several times.
Rose is featured fairly prominently for an occasional character.
The whole thing starts out with a very "Wonderland" feel to it, just after going down the rabbit hole. Then it switches abruptly to the carnage of the plane crash.
May 25th, 2007 - 5:01 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss OK Barnum you asked for it: DUCHOVNY SUCKS!
As for the comparison I didn't watch much of Alias, so its hard to compare, but was it really the same serial format as LOST where missing an episode (depending on which one you happened to miss) would leave you out in the cold on what was going on.
Star Trek and the X-Files had base storylines but totally individual episodes. You could watch any 5 X-Files in a season and be entertained (particularly early Duchovny eps. or after the jackass left the show) and still know there was an all-encompassing Gov't and Alien conspiracy. So really a totally different format.
I think the better comparisons are Twin Peaks (A D.Duchovny show I didn't watch) and the recent Invasion are good examples of serials that didn't make it because they couldn't generate enough viewers and therefore enough $$$..LOST has done a good job in the face of that reality. I love the Original Star Trek but let's be honest, if the show was as poorly attended today as it was back when it originally aired, it would have been lucky to make it past the Pilot episode!!!
May 25th, 2007 - 5:54 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Barnum - Sorry I missed your post earlier (I was posting at the same time). Anyway, I don't think the big over-arching mystery of "Lost" is a McGuffin, and as I'm rewatching Season 1, I see echoes of what happens later. I also see more elements of "Alice's Adventures in Wonderland" than I had originally picked up, with its strange solitary trek that expands as Alice meets more of the denizens of Wonderland, until she ends up at the court. Now we are through the looking glass witho ever having goneback through the rabbit hole.
I apologize that my references are more literary, but that's the world I come from.
My brother, unfortunately, passed away of cancer in 2001. I think he would have liked this show.
Dutch - The original "Star Trek" actually had good ratings in the "key demographic," but that wasn't taken into consideration at the time, so the show was cancelled.
May 25th, 2007 - 6:17 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Charlotte-Sorry to hear about your brother, I know that was a while ago, but that's a sad thing.
I like your comparison to Alice in Wonderland and I think you do hit on something big. WATCH the DVDs, especially the Lost Losties amongst us, you'll get a new perspective and realize all the information that we've learned over all three seasons!
As for Star Trek, I always heard the ratings were lousy from the get-go, its good to hear it was actually appreciated somewhat even back in its original days. I think though the big difference is back in those days, the network didn't yank a show within a half dozen episodes if it was struggling, anymore they'll pull a show half-way thru its Pilot!
May 26th, 2007 - 7:19 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss OK, I have a question that I haven't seen addressed anywhere. After Gretta, Bonnie and Patchy are "killed" and their bodies are covered (where do all of those blankets come from anyway
), Des turns to the SCUBA equipment. When he turns back around, the camera pans the room. I (and two of my friends) thought that ALL 3 bodies were gone. Just blankets and blood were left there. Did anyone else notice this? May 26th, 2007 - 10:08 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss I think the girls bodies were still there LiG.
Could it mean anything if the funeral parlor was in a predominantly black neighborhood in LA? Or am I reading too far into things? Could the character in the coffin be a not-yet-seen black male character, maybe part the "rescue" party?
And if there is a magically box on the island, who's to say Jack or Claire didn't wish for their father back?
And I thought the whole psychic's daughter dying and then reviving kind of implied that the same might be true of Jack's dad.
I miss Eko. He would have been awesome in the season 3finale.
And Juliet is beautiful, love her reactions and smirks and smart a$$ quips.
May 27th, 2007 - 3:39 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss ok, so 2 things.
1st, for my bud, barnum who finds some inconsistencies in this show to be most irritating...how the HECK does patchy keep surviving these lethal events?!? ok, so he tells us the sonar fence wasn't turned up to "lethal," and while i find that hard to swallow, so be it. but a spear to the heart?!? come on! first, he'd have to remove it and it seems, without removing it like jack did for ben (by cutting it in half to you don't have to pull the tip back through), he should have part of a lung hanging out of the entry site. then, he gets into full scuba gear in like 12 seconds? the man is like superman in a phone booth (not that i am well versed on my superheroes-sure to change after a trip to canada-but i do recall superman donning that cape pretty darn quickly)! i won't even address the pain the salt water would inflict on that wound-i'll just pretend the scuba suit blocked that. i don't know...it just seems patchy is either superhuman, or teflon don.
my 2nd point: a few of you have mentioned that jack is called the hero a few times in the hospital and it seems that you think this is in relation to something pertaining to the island. why am i seeing it as simple as he just pulled 2 people out of a burning car. doesn't that qualify you to be of hero status? what am i missing?
p.s. how DOES superman change into his cape these days? with phone booths quickly being eliminated due to cell phones, i wonder if he holds some kind of master key that allows him to change in ATM machines or something...
May 27th, 2007 - 11:30 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss LB- No need to supply Barnum with any inconsistency ammunition. Doubtless he's spotted that stuff himself and taken copious notes on it for later critcism. Without adding fuel to the criticism fire there are plenty of "Come on, No way" events on the show, but who knows maybe Patchy was wearing a Kevlar vest or maybe somehow he just heals at light speed...
This was actually no less plausible than Hurley being able to run his sneak attack on the Others in the magic Dharma Bus. I mean come on have you heard the engine of a VW Bus? Tom et al. would have heard him tearing thru the jungle (or the high idle) of him creeping up to attack...But they didn't and we got one of the best segments in the history of LOST to date. Absolutely classic! With that said I tend to overlook some of those things and merely roll my eyes at others, if Patchy had stayed down the whole Charlie martyr thing would have never played out. I do hope that in regards to Patchy, the 3rd time is a charm and that when he goes down, he's down for the count! May 27th, 2007 - 12:06 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss ahhhh...good point dutch. w/out patchy's ability to look death in the face and laugh, we'd not have the passing of the late charlie pace. i'll give you that.
May 27th, 2007 - 5:51 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss I just watched the Finale on the webcast and one thing I'm puzzled about is when Patchy detonated the grenade outside the portal wasn't he still holding it? I didn't get the impression that he was able to stick it to the window and swim away, it would have been hard to drop it and get the timing correct to blow right at the window, also it didn't seem he threw it...
Did Patchy Martyr himself for the cause? Maybe he really is dead this time???
May 27th, 2007 - 7:46 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Dutch- I was thinking the same...Patchy if not dead should be at least missing a couple of few fingers or perhaps the whole arm... plus the other eye.....
May 27th, 2007 - 7:52 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss ... and those already damaged eardrums....
May 27th, 2007 - 7:59 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss I was just checking out the big LOST site, The Fuselage, for the first time. I hope that doesn't make me a traitor to the Purple Hatch! Some interesting posts over there. I copied the following post from a person going by the handle "Dialectical Thought" I thought it was pretty interesting, Personally don't agree with item #2 but otherwise a good post in my book.
(By Dialectialthought posted at Fuselage)
H E L P M E....... not SAVE ME.
I would like to point out that Jacob said Help Me and not SAVE ME. This is a very crucial difference that I think will play out in the Episodes to come. Since Jacob is described as a "Brilliant man, a Great man" he seems to actually have good will and a plan or a mission. I think it is becoming very evident that Jacob is asking Locke to Help Him complete that mission\goal.
Taken from that context the speculation that Jacob is not equal to the Island but another person utilizing the "powers and special nature" of the Island for a goal. It also lends circumstantial evidence to the theory that the Island and the "end of Human existence" are intertwined. Finally, Jacob also does not seem to be ON the Island at that time, lending move circumstantial evidence to the fact that Jacob is from another time (most likely the future) and he is trying to stop Humans from killing themselves (the numbers). Jacob, like Walt, can cast his thoughts and is helping the "Other's" figure out how to stop an apocalyptic event.
Now from that, the logical extensions are:
1) Future Jack, always the believer in human Free Will, has put all this together and is desperate to get back to the Island and "change things". Kate has been convinced by someone, "that it is not going to change anything". She is now squarely in the Predetermined camp and is resigned to her "Fate" (rhymes with Kate
2) The four toed statue is a reference to the future where humans don't need their thumbs or small toes.
3) Ben, has lost his way with Jacob. Ben is preoccupied with solving the Island's fertility problem, most likely because he has given up on stopping the Apocalypse and knows that the Island somehow survives. Therefore the only way to continue human existence and "start over" is to successfully be able to breed children without their mothers dying. It takes two to tango to make a baby and if women start to die you start to significantly drop your chances on propagating.
4) Desmond is key to all this and he will have to play a bigger and bigger role since he is the one who seems to be getting more and more information, through premonitions and possibly Penny
5) Someone, not sure who yet, wants, and thinks they will benefit from a catastrophe. They somehow want to control the numbers, the island, and quite possibly Ben's group. Of course, this most likely is the "Bad Guys" (Hanso Foundation?) we hopefully are introduced to in Season 4.
6) Mikhail is a ******* lol (sorry I have had enough of the Moscow Michael Myers!)
So far the actors, authors and crew of lost have done a fairly stable job at creating suspense while keeping most of the questions still fun to think about. Credit does go to everyone on this production and a big applause to JJ. Abrams for improving on all the story lines he started with Alias (which jumped the shark incredibly). Hope they keep it realistic enough to not repeat the faults of Alias and intriguing enough to not lose us when answers start to reveal themselves
May 27th, 2007 - 8:01 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Hey I just discovered what happened to Mikhail amongst the smile icons!
May 27th, 2007 - 8:33 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss LOL Dutch I like it!!!!!!!!!
May 28th, 2007 - 9:35 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss dutch-you've got a very good point about patchy should be down a few fingers. i just watched the finale (again) and if the grenade was not in his hand when it exploded, it could only have been millimeters away from him. surely he could not swim away in time to avoid that explosion. i also noticed he didn't have any of the breathing equipment in his mouth. could it be he didn't have a tank on because that would cause an even bigger explosion (you know, one he may not actually survive) with the O2 tank?
a few other points. dr. rob hamill is the chief of surgery. was he replacing jack or christian? i ask because i am pretty sure christian was the head but we know he loses his license or whatever when jack reveals the truth about how that woman died in surgery.
right before locke almost takes his life, you hear the whispers again. briefly. then post-pubertal walt pipes up.
when jack goes to the funeral parloUr, the director says to him (and i'll note where i cannot make out a word or 2), "there was no funeral {does he then say "sir" or "for her"}, only a viewing." can anyone with closed-caption decipher? or, maybe the article in the paper indicated it was a man and that would answer my question. anyway, it is a decent coffin if this viewing is taking place in a what seems to be a lower class neighboUrhood? wonder who paid for it, or if the person inside had life insurance to cover it.
the last name of the mom and kid in the car wreck is arlen. make a mental note-wonder if that name comes up again in the next 3 seaons.
May 28th, 2007 - 10:13 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss LOSTbean! I guess the new Dr. Hamil has replaced Christian.
I heard the whispers too; is this the first time we've heard them since season 1? When I saw Walt, I @ssumed that it was really Mr. Smokey.
I did a google on Naomi and found a 'real' looking site that is called 'Naomi': Natural Association of the Ovulation Method of Ireland. The principals were originally from Australia.
And another possibly useless bit of info: When Jack is with his ex-wife there is a poster in Spanish, talking about 'Folic acid'. Folic acid, or rather the lack of it causes birth defects.
There is a site up called 'Hanso Air', I'm not sure if this is from the producers or just a fan site.
May 28th, 2007 - 11:04 AM
Re: THE Finale-Various Musings Well it's Monday AM, Memorial Day, Happy Memorial Day everyone. I thought I'd take the opportunity to clarify a few points about things I have written and why I'd ever brought them up on a LOST Board.
1.I pretty much respond to every single post made on the board by Barnum, and now his spouse, Monica. Why? Because they are intelligently written but in my humble opinion unfair criticism of the show. Given that C&L did not have an end date for the "Maxi-Series" until AFTER S3 was already written and produced, I would say they've done a great job of entertaining, tying up loose ends and not having a lot of filler. I would say if they'd decided Day 1 that the series would be 100 episodes, I'd guess it would be finishing next year with a full season and we wouldn't have ever been introduced to Nina&Pablo or spent an entire ep. on Rose&Bernard or even had the ep. "Dave" (great ep.) whereby we were all left wondering if this show wasn't going on in Hurley's head. Point is they don't decide how many eps. they are going to have from Day 1. I do think a decision to wrap it up in 48 more episodes allows LOST to determine what and when to answer questions and how many new questions arise...
They still face the challenge of keeping it entertaining and must keep us wondering until the end, but at least their "Zombie" season won't ever come into play. In summary, it's a nice challenge to rebut the Barnum family as necessary, keeps me on my toes.
2.Why do I HATE David "Dicky-bird" Duchovny?
X-Files was in my opinion one of the best shows of all time, especially its first few seasons, when it was creative, was filmed in the Pacific NW and when Dicky and Gillian were young, fresh and INTERESTED in their roles. Dicky bird got greedy and demanded big
they paid him (Towards the end)a $1M an episode, they moved the filming to LA (Which for the X-Files, sucked) and had a lot of Shark Jumping episodes. In otherwords they kept it going too long, and in my opinion rather than critcize bringing in new characters,(Doggett & Reyes) they should have dumped Duchovny long before...It was obvious he didn't Care or Believe in his role.
My point Dicky, is make the choice, take the $$$ and do the job, OR Move on! Not doubt Gillian Anderson was worn out on her Scully role, but at least she kept it believable, of course comparing Duchovny's acting skills with Gillian's is like comparing Matt Fox to Terry O'Quinn, but Gillian took a paycheck and earned it. In any case, my final word on Duchovny and I likely will not make much mention of him further...Hey Dicky...
How does this have anything to do with LOST? Well I hope, and I think they've done a good job so far, is that no one character is allowed to be "So important" that they're leaving the show would have a devastating effect. Dicky Bird had that effect, largely because the X-Files centered very heavily on the 2 lead characters (LOST has many) and Dicky watered the show down for years with half-@ss acting and a snarky attitude. By the time he left for the most part, the show was ready for retirement.
On LOST I think any one or several characters, could walk and they'd be fine, it does seem there is a commitment to Jack and Kate (after the Flash Forward), so hopefully neither of them pull a Duchovny. But we shall see. Time to enjoy the day, hope you all have a nice one, chat with you later. Namaste
May 28th, 2007 - 11:42 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss sawsee: great find on the "NAOMI" website. sheesh-everything on this show is googlable. now, i am trying to think how she (or this organization she represents) would be detrimental to ben. they both have interest in fertility, but in opposing ways?
and dutch, if actors get too big for their britches, that would suck. especially jack and kate as we see them in this flash forward....kinda hard for C&L to undo the fact that they (jack and kate) made it back to "real life" if they (jack and kate) walk before the series ends.
just watched ep. 1 of season 1 and it seems charlie is always testing fate. that piece of burning fuselage just misses him. and, later, in the moth ep (charlotte reminded me), he's ok risking his life crawling into the collapsed cave.
May 28th, 2007 - 12:06 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Actually, LB, I think Charlie spends a lot of the first season (especially the first half) hitting on all of the attractive women. Firs Kate, then Shannon, then finally Claire. There's a very funny deleted scene where he's trying to hit on Shannon by singing his DriveShaft song ("You All Everybody") and she's ignoring him. Finally he asks her if she remembers the band, and she comments that she hated them. It's funy and well-played, but it didn't make it into the pilot (it was a bit unnecesary).
May 28th, 2007 - 12:14 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Hi Dutch-
That was an interesting and thoughtful post on all accounts. If I may though, I'd like to add an observation/impression of mine that might lead to a better understanding between the posters here.
Or it could just flood the station. Let's see what happens...
I think that we all respect Barnum and Monica's opinions even if we don't agree with them. I only respond to Barnum's comments rarely because if you examine them closely, at the core most of them are based on his feelings, and you really can't argue feelings. People are entitled to feel as they'd like, and even if we vigorously disagree, what more can we do except roll our eyes? The few times I've responded have been times when I felt that a very specific statement was made that could be refuted with facts, or a statement was made that situation A must imply situation B, and I'd suggested that no, it might instead imply C or D. But in the end, I doubt that minds were changed.
For example, if a statement is made that situation X is implausible, that's based on feelings. You or I might find it completely plausible, or at least reasonable enough for the story's sake, but that's based on our own feelings. From a purely logical standpoint, it's really hard to argue. Or, if we hear that situation Y "suggests that they're all making it up as they go along," this is a huge feelings-based conclusion. There's nothing wrong with it; it could even ultimately prove right, though my own feelings-based response is intense doubt.
I won't speak on the motivations for Barnum's feelings, though I think I know my own. As someone who's tried his hand at fiction writing, (lotsa rough drafts; nothing fit for publication; don't ask...) I have my own feel for what looks planned-out and what doesn't, but it's still feelings-based. (If we add to this the fact that C & L never said that all details were planned out but that they had a basic outline, and we also add in that they've even pointed out places where they've chosen to change things, it further degenerates into arguing feelings about what someone else _meant_, and that to me doesn't accomplish much of anything.)
While some may dislike the way the story's unfolding (perfectly legitimate feelings for some) this is likely to induce a lot of negative feelings-based conclusions in other aspects of the show. These are all well and good, though they'll bias any clear and objective evaluation. To be fair, the positive feelings of those of us who like the show are also likely to bias our objectivity. But if either is true, what of it? We've each got our own feelings that are unlikely to change and are likely to result in some very predictable responses from each of us. I'm sure I'm not the only one who just does a quick skim-over of postings that look like I've read the same stuff before. I suspect that whether or not people will actually read our comments completely or just skip them as "same old stuff" will be based on whether or not we can add things that are new and not so predictable.
And to me, that's fitting enough as a reward or punishment.
May 28th, 2007 - 12:18 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss LOL, charlotte. yes, charlie does spend quite a bit of time "working the room/beach." ok, so he tempts not only fate/death, but also some opinionated, stubborn women, which could result in some rather adverse effects.
by the time he gets to the looking glass, he doesn't seem to tempt women, at least not in the "dating potential" sort of way. maybe he realizes (according to GB's recap), that he is not their "type."
May 28th, 2007 - 2:48 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss wes-
If we don't know what's going on with a majority of the elements of the show, how are your thoughts any less feelings-based than mine? There are so few concrete things that we know about the show and the direction it is taking, so I don't understand why my conclusions and conjectures are written off as feelings-based and you deem your own as gospel, when if fact you have no clue whether or not your ideas are any more plausible than the next person's. You know, just because you suggest something could have happened another way (that "it might imply C or D" so to speak), does not mean that it did. Not only that, but knowing this show and the producers tendencies, even the things we are led to believe are concrete may not be. Sure, you can theorize and suggest alternative scenarios all day long, but most of your conclusions are no more grounded in fact than anyone else's.
Since when was not being happy with the show a capital crime around here??? You guys are killing me with your narrow-minded approach to people with differing opinions. You preach about how everyone is entitled to an opinion, but you spend most of your time not trying to debate the show, and instead try to debate our feelings about the show. I don't believe that anyone here has a clear and unbiased opinion on this show or that anyone here views it purely with objectivity. And to say that you roll your eyes at our thoughts just adds to the insult and the hypocrisy.
Wes, you said this yourself: "To be fair, the positive feelings of those of us who like the show are also likely to bias our objectivity. But if either is true, what of it? We've each got our own feelings that are unlikely to change and are likely to result in some very predictable responses from each of us."
So I ask you, if you admit that those of you who "like" the show (and again, you guys love the blanket statements - just because I find fault with it does not mean that I DISlike it) - are just as biased as the ones who supposedly dislike it, what was the point of your post other than to preach your superiority yet again? It didn't serve any purpose except to once again try to further disregard our opinions - the sames one you keep saying you "respect."
Yeah, right. Now I'm the one rolling MY eyes.
May 28th, 2007 - 3:01 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Ok. Not quite sure how we got where we are, but I for one, LOVE to hear the nit picks, the WTF's and the "OK, that's just dumb"s.
When I was recapping the shows this season, Barnum's irritation at so many of the show's elements really kept me honest.
Nobody would have read (or taken seriously) a love-in of the show.
So, here we are.
Everyone. Step. Back.
We're sitting right at the edge of a very unhappy place.
Please, for the sake of this wonderful refuge from the nastiness that we've all been subjected to at EW or elsewhere, stop.
Just agree to disagree. It's not hard.
Don't make this into more than it is.
May 28th, 2007 - 3:15 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Ok, and now for a few bars of my fave song....
"You are everybody. You are everybody. You are everybody..."
Catchy, little ditty!
May 28th, 2007 - 3:24 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss GB -
I have never once been nasty to anyone on this board. I don't ever intend to be. But it gets on my nerves when you seem to draw the line on things after MY posts. I stopped talking about it, but OTHER PEOPLE kept going. I didn't say anything worse than anyone else has, yet apparently my posts are being viewed as the ones causing the problem. I have agreed to disagree from the beginning. Both sides are throwing punches, but only one side seems to be taking the hit. It's not fair and if I feel a need to stand up for my point of view, while following the guidelines that you set up for this board, then I am going to do it.
May 28th, 2007 - 4:01 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Monica -
Honest, not drawing the line after your posts particularly, just the way the timing works, that's all.
I just get the sense that backs are getting up and hope to avoid anything beyond a friendly disagreement.
You aren't the target, honest.
May 28th, 2007 - 4:20 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Well I should probably take GB's advice and just keep my mouth shut (or my fingers off the keyboard)but I wouldn't read anybody, especially Wes as "Shutting ideas down". I rather enjoy having comments posted that don't view the show completely with Rose colored glasses. I'm just having fun with rebutting Barnum and associating anyone with being in Barnum's family is just for kicks and giggles
. Monica, if you'd like me to stop that, just say so.As for postings, since we DON'T know how the show is going to play out, we only theorize, it is fair to say everyone's opinion is "emotionally based", I'm a believer in that this is a fantastic show that has managed to succeed with the
realities of Hollywood and network TV. Not everyone agrees with me, and hey that's OK, but I won't be agreeing with all the posts either. But that is part of what discussion is about. Namaste May 28th, 2007 - 4:33 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss namaste, and JUMBO group hug to everyone. really.
May 29th, 2007 - 9:38 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss I'm a little perplexed...
My last posting spoke about how the disagreements here are based on feelings -- everybody's feelings; not just those of a couple of the dissenters around here. The main idea of the posting is that arguing these points -- by anybody -- needs to take into account that they are based on feelings/opinions and that you can't really argue that people should feel differently than they do. There was no air of "superiority," no attacks, and no attempt to put down anybody because of what they believe. The conclusion was that since these ideas are based on feelings, it's best just to let people feel as they do, and that most responses really aren't gonna accomplish much.
Now, I know it was a lengthy posting, but before firing off an angry response, it might be best to reread the message -- carefully. Because while the response may be the answer to some message, it certainly wasn't a response to the message I left.
May 29th, 2007 - 10:01 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss I have a question about the finale that I have not seen addressed. Maybe the answer is so obvious that it doesn't merit conversation. If so, I just don't get it, but here goes.
How did Penny get onto the Looking Glass Station video screen?
May 29th, 2007 - 10:04 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss An excellent question Tim.
I mused about that myself in my recap at TVGasm.com, but my question isn't how, but how did she HAPPEN to be in front of a camera JUST at that moment? She obviously must have contacts within what used to be Dharma, but does she sit there 24/7 trying to call the Looking Glass in the faint hope that something might change to allow her to get through?
May 29th, 2007 - 10:25 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss So Penny somehow had the Looking Glass stations phone number? Was she in regular conversation with the Lovely Ladies of the Looking Glass? Did we have any previous hint that she was associated with Dharma?
Or was she just broadcasting to a large area and got picked up at that moment by chance?
May 29th, 2007 - 10:37 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Tim -
My guess (and it's only a guess) is that Penny's money and/or family have given her connections to Dharma. I suspect that she's figured out that Desmond has managed to become wrapped up in the Dharma, probably with Papa Widmore's help. That would explain how she got the Looking Glass "number", although how the Looking Glass would have video feed (Dharma was a 1970's project...) is a bit of a mystery. A bigger mystery is why she would have been trying to call JUST then...
May 29th, 2007 - 10:55 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss My guess about Penny & the screen in The Looking Glass is that someone in her organization has been trying to contact that station for a long time, but was prevented from doing so by the jamming signal. When Charlie shut the jamming signal off, an alarm went off somewhere out in the Real World, letting her know that communications were at last possible. She got to the communications screen just in time to get a quick messsage from Charlie before the grenade hit the fan, and communications were lost again.
My question about the jamming (both to Penny AND to Naomi's boat and communications with the Outside World in general) relates to the fact that jamming doesn't so much cloak attempts at communication as it prevents it by shouting so loudly that your communications can't get through. So if jamming was going on, Naomi's boat (and the Outside World) should have been able to locate the island by following the very loud jamming signal. I'm presuming that the writers just didn't understand the technical details (they miss a lot of them) but it just looks odd.
May 29th, 2007 - 11:13 AM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss maybe there's a mole in the other's group, working for penny. someone who can radio information to her immediately (because not much time passed between the LOSTies learning of the looking glass and charlie and desmond getting down there). but then that leads to another question. after the flame station went up in, well, flames (hmmm...foreshadowing?), was that station the others only means of communication? is that why ben wanted naomi's phone so badly (not so much to prevent the outside world from having contact with them, but needing some way to get in contact with the outside world)? i mean, if ben was really afraid of the outside world finding them, surely the phone could have been destroyed to prevent that. maybe he was thinking that if he got it, patchy could learn how to use it and communicate with the folks they needed to reach.
now, maybe there is not a mole, but i doubt penny is just sitting there, just staring at a screen, hoping someone from the looking glass will communicate with her sometime in her lifetime. maybe some little buzzer or alarm was made to go off if a connection was ever made.
maybe i am confusing myself the more i think about this?
May 29th, 2007 - 12:56 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Well, we know that when the anomaly-of-whatever-scientific-significance caused by the explosion of the hatch took place, Penny was notified immediately by some Russian (?) dudes who were somehow monitoring the area/world for such activity. Maybe she was notified just as quickly that the repeating French broadcast, which they had traced but possibly not been able to locate b/c of the islands, er, weirdness, had finally ceased. Maybe they were able to respond but not to trace the location of its origin. Obviously, I have no scientific knowledge, but the idea of her responding so quickly didn't bother me since she had been notified lickity-split when the hatch imploded too.
May 29th, 2007 - 1:22 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Since Penny's message came in immediately after Charlie turned off the jamming signal, I'd suspect that was the tip-off to Penny that things had changed. It's possible that Penny couldn't communicate with them at all until this was done.
BTW, while I think we were all surprised by Jack's BBB (Big Bushy Beard) it probably makes sense if the writers are planning to mix flashbacks with flash-forwards from now on. To keep the viewers from getting mixed up as to when things are happening, Jack's now wearing a big sign that says it's a flash-forward.
May 29th, 2007 - 1:26 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Wes -
Good point.
My bet is that the next "flash forward" will involve Jack and his BBB, meeting with one (or more) of the survivors who also got off the island, and money says that they'll have their own "BBB"s. Maybe Saayid will be cleanshaven or perhaps Jin will speak perfect English. Perhaps Claire will be a redhead. Stuff like that.
That way we'll have a chance to keep timelines straight. If they mix the forward flashes and continue to flash back to pre-crash times, they'll HAVE to do something like that. To hard to follow without the pointers...
May 29th, 2007 - 1:33 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss will locke have that god-awful head of hair again?
will hurley be a buck seventy five?
will sawyer be clean chaven and sweet and sincere (NOOOOOO-say it isn't so).
May 29th, 2007 - 1:53 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss Hurley at 175?
Holy special effects, Batman!
May 29th, 2007 - 2:01 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss jack or juliette will perform that gastric stapling/bypass surgery on hurley and whamo!
or, he'll eat a lot of jin's sushi and well, recycle it all...
May 29th, 2007 - 2:09 PM
Re: THE Finale-I'd say let's discuss LB-Look for a Hurley Flash Forward showing him participating on the NBC show "The Biggest Loser", otherwise I don't expect to ever see him at a Buck-Seventy Five!Serious Exercise! No more Mr. Cluck!!
posted by Greybishop @ 9:23 PM
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- Name: Greybishop
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An old guy who you would find boring. Special skills include: Ability to eat a whole pizza in a single sitting, regardless of size; Amazing taste in comic book related apparel; My cleverest moments invariably occur when there's no audience.
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